The Supreme Court May Finally Do Something Right! - Page 5

DanaC · 06-08-2008, 04:56 PM

I don't think anybody has suggested that people without guns can't kill a lot of people. As already mentioned, Rwanda's genocide was mainly machetes, clubs, assorted blades and fire.

This guy killed a lot of people with a knife. I wonder how many more would have died had he been armed with kalashnikov.

Radar · 06-08-2008, 04:58 PM

Maybe none. Maybe more. Who is to say?

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-09-2008, 09:42 PM

Look, getting murdered isn't exactly part of the English culture either. Nor is being obliged to submit to murder. Guns readily trump knives.

Some have raised the notion of an "arms race," implying destruction and impoverishment. However, this quite misunderstands the actual components of a bigtime arms race: these happen in national and military contexts, not in the civil and criminal. Sufficient firepower available to the good guys amounts to a violence suppressant. The bad guys, simply enough, can't rely on surviving any violence if the good guys are sufficiently equipped. Put another way, you can end a knife fight if you bring a gun.

DanaC · 06-10-2008, 06:19 AM

And if everybody has a gun?

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-10-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

And if everybody has a gun?

As anyone with one hour's time on a shooting range knows, that's the very definition of a polite society. It's because normal persons, engaged in disposing lethal force -- let's face it, guns, swords, and stone axes do that -- desire not to alarm or upset anyone while they're doing it. If you want to see good manners universally on display, hang out on a firing line for a while and people-watch.

Quote:

Oh, bullshit.

Shawnee, your opinion is disproven by the universal experience of each and every state in the Union that has liberalized concealed carry of weapons, from 1987 to today. With the exceptions of the large urban areas, particularly NYC, DC, Detroit, and L.A., the U.S. murder rate per 100,000 persons compares with England's. (The big urbs do skew things.) We guns-and-freedom people know this; you do not. Even worse, what you are doing is harboring progenocide views. Don't do that; it's not just immoral, it's fucking gross, see?

Time for you to do some homework and become enlightened. You know -- kind of like me. I mean, I get it -- and where were you?

Shawnee123 · 06-10-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

As anyone with one hour's time on a shooting range knows, that's the very definition of a polite society. It's because normal persons, engaged in disposing lethal force -- let's face it, guns, swords, and stone axes do that -- desire not to alarm or upset anyone while they're doing it. If you want to see good manners universally on display, hang out on a firing line for a while and people-watch.

Shawnee, your opinion is disproven by the universal experience of each and every state in the Union that has liberalized concealed carry of weapons, from 1987 to today. With the exceptions of the large urban areas, particularly NYC, DC, Detroit, and L.A., the U.S. murder rate per 100,000 persons compares with England's. (The big urbs do skew things.) We guns-and-freedom people know this; you do not. Even worse, what you are doing is harboring progenocide views. Don't do that; it's not just immoral, it's fucking gross, see?

Time for you to do some homework and become enlightened. You know -- kind of like me. I mean, I get it -- and where were you?

I'm so mad I could shoot you in the face. But, but, but...luckily my reasoning takes over and I realize you might shoot me in the face back.

Puh, just penis substitutes for you big mocko men. You bore me silly. You and your "statistics."

Speaking of gross, looked in your mirror lately?

TheMercenary · 06-10-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I'm so mad I could shoot you in the face. But, but, but...luckily my reasoning takes over and I realize you might shoot me in the face back.

Puh, just penis substitutes for you big mocko men. You bore me silly. You and your "statistics."

Speaking of gross, looked in your mirror lately?

Things are not that simple. Come on. Give us a break. You are making a bunch of assumptions about gun owners.

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-10-2008, 11:43 PM

Well, DanaC, you're reduced to complaining at my tone. That tells me you are completely out of persuasive arguments for your point of view contrasted with mine. Capitalism wins out over socialism again, Right trumps Left. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn summed it up: "Right is right." He left his reader to draw the conclusion about the Left.

This is usually the outcome when someone tangles with me on this field. I am not lacking in intellect myself -- and like you, my intellect leads me to the stances I take, and shows me what's wrong with the others. I'm able to articulate what's wrong, too. Frankly, very few of my opponents get that far. You can read what they wrote, and they just can't do it. As the observation has it, recorded in various forms from the late nineteenth century through Clemenceau and Churchill: "If you aren't a socialist [earlier: liberal] at twenty you have no heart; if you're still a socialist [earlier: aren't a conservative] at forty you have no brain." By this standard, I've always been blessed with a brain. This is why my opposition ends up in a corner.

Shawnee123 · 06-11-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Things are not that simple. Come on. Give us a break. You are making a bunch of assumptions about gun owners.

Oh lord, there's that poor "us" (a refreshing pause from "we" and "they").

Did you read my last post in this thread? Yeah? Then shut up. Cock. :p

Radar · 06-10-2008, 09:11 AM

If everybody has a gun, people are very polite. In fact everyone doesn't need to have a gun. Just make it easy for regular people to conceal weapons. If criminals don't know who is or isn't armed they are less likely to attack. In 100% of the states where concealed carry permits were made legal, crime dropped dramatically (more than 10%). In the states with the strictest gun control laws, we see the most crime and the most gun violence. This is because the government has made people easier victims for those who would prey on us.

Criminals love gun control laws. Al Capone did, and so did Hitler.

Shawnee123 · 06-10-2008, 09:15 AM

Oh, bullshit.

Radar · 06-10-2008, 09:18 AM

Facts aren't bullshit just because you don't like 'em.

Shawnee123 · 06-10-2008, 09:22 AM

Facts aren't facts just because you spout them.

Radar · 06-10-2008, 09:25 AM

I'm not saying these are facts because I spouted them. I "spouted" them because they are facts.

DanaC · 06-10-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

make it easy for regular people to conceal weapons. If criminals don't know who is or isn't armed they are less likely to attack.

As can be evidenced by their reluctance to shoot fellow, armed criminals ?

06-08-2008, 04:58 PM	#2
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Maybe none. Maybe more. Who is to say? __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

06-09-2008, 09:42 PM	#3
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Look, getting murdered isn't exactly part of the English culture either. Nor is being obliged to submit to murder. Guns readily trump knives. Some have raised the notion of an "arms race," implying destruction and impoverishment. However, this quite misunderstands the actual components of a bigtime arms race: these happen in national and military contexts, not in the civil and criminal. Sufficient firepower available to the good guys amounts to a violence suppressant. The bad guys, simply enough, can't rely on surviving any violence if the good guys are sufficiently equipped. Put another way, you can end a knife fight if you bring a gun. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

06-10-2008, 11:43 PM	#8
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Well, DanaC, you're reduced to complaining at my tone. That tells me you are completely out of persuasive arguments for your point of view contrasted with mine. Capitalism wins out over socialism again, Right trumps Left. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn summed it up: "Right is right." He left his reader to draw the conclusion about the Left. This is usually the outcome when someone tangles with me on this field. I am not lacking in intellect myself -- and like you, my intellect leads me to the stances I take, and shows me what's wrong with the others. I'm able to articulate what's wrong, too. Frankly, very few of my opponents get that far. You can read what they wrote, and they just can't do it. As the observation has it, recorded in various forms from the late nineteenth century through Clemenceau and Churchill: "If you aren't a socialist [earlier: liberal] at twenty you have no heart; if you're still a socialist [earlier: aren't a conservative] at forty you have no brain." By this standard, I've always been blessed with a brain. This is why my opposition ends up in a corner. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

06-10-2008, 09:11 AM	#10
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	If everybody has a gun, people are very polite. In fact everyone doesn't need to have a gun. Just make it easy for regular people to conceal weapons. If criminals don't know who is or isn't armed they are less likely to attack. In 100% of the states where concealed carry permits were made legal, crime dropped dramatically (more than 10%). In the states with the strictest gun control laws, we see the most crime and the most gun violence. This is because the government has made people easier victims for those who would prey on us. Criminals love gun control laws. Al Capone did, and so did Hitler. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin Last edited by Radar; 06-10-2008 at 09:17 AM.

06-10-2008, 09:15 AM	#11
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Oh, bullshit. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-08-2008, 04:56 PM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I don't think anybody has suggested that people without guns can't kill a lot of people. As already mentioned, Rwanda's genocide was mainly machetes, clubs, assorted blades and fire. This guy killed a lot of people with a knife. I wonder how many more would have died had he been armed with kalashnikov.

06-10-2008, 06:19 AM	#4
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	And if everybody has a gun?

06-10-2008, 09:18 AM	#12
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Facts aren't bullshit just because you don't like 'em. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

06-10-2008, 09:22 AM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Facts aren't facts just because you spout them. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-10-2008, 09:25 AM	#14
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I'm not saying these are facts because I spouted them. I "spouted" them because they are facts. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

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