Immigration Enforcement Un-American? - Page 7

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I guess you're calling that prejudice, but I have to rely on what I've got.

You turned this into justification for prejudice, which I purposedly avoided. Prejudice is natural and unavoidable and but it does exist and it does becomes greater when we are born into a society with preexisting seperations and prejudices.

If you are attacked by a homeless person with green eyes you will probably avoid the homeless while not avoiding someone with green eyes because you grew up in a society where class seperation and prejudices exist but not eye color seperation and prejudice. So, since we grew up in a society where racial seperation and prejudice exist, we will most likely stereotype racial groups, which effect our perception and "liking" towards them.

I am saying in this from an observational standpoint and remember my intial claim is that we cannot completely seperate racial and immigration issues because of subconcious prejudices. I am not adding morality into here and I am not saying prejudice is justified or not.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-25-2009, 03:18 PM

Not a justification, a reality.
How could I know the person attacking me was homeless? I can't, but I can know they had green eyes, and any other things I can personally see. There is no way I can know a strangers socio-economic, educational, or religious background, I can only go by appearance in one on one situations.

Sure, if you grow up in the city you'll likely be wary of wild animals, from what other people have said, until you have a chance to have your own experiences and form your own opinion.
But that wouldn't necessarily keep you from contributing to wildlife support organizations, because as a human being you have the intellectual capacity to reason wild animals are not bad.

My intellectual capacity tells me that immigrants are not bad, but people that enter this country illegally are criminals and should be removed, not supported.

slang · 03-26-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

female(except in court),

Happy Monkey · 03-25-2009, 11:35 AM

Where could that analogy possibly go?

lookout123 · 03-25-2009, 05:58 PM

Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class.

Happy Monkey · 03-25-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class.

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

TheMercenary · 03-25-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

To which I may add, get back to us in 20 years and let us know if your assumptions have altered.

lookout123 · 03-25-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

If it were math or a real science... sure. In this case it is a bunch of people sitting around talking about why life is unfair.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-26-2009, 02:14 AM

Meanwhile, I present without prejudice, Mexico. pfd

piercehawkeye45 · 03-26-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

If it were math or a real science... sure. In this case it is a bunch of people sitting around talking about why life is unfair.

You do realize that many of the methods of finding conclusions for sociology and science are the same...

And there is a difference between recognizing something is unfair and getting all uptight about it.

Bullitt · 03-26-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You do realize that many of the methods of finding conclusions for sociology and science are the same...

Sorry but there's far from a consensus in the professional/higher academic world about that. Take a historiography course sometime, it will show you some serious issues with sociology, typically focusing on the actual application of this so called science to the real world (problems with complex systems, etc.). Social theories are nice and all, but application thereof is very problematic and predicting the behavior of micro or macro levels of people groups is wrought with problems and is basically more unreliable than my old '81 VW. Don't get me wrong sociology can be useful but it's like Freud, take what you hear with a grain of salt.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 06:13 PM

Which has anything to do with the argument how?

But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then...

Bullitt · 03-25-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Which has anything to do with the argument how?

But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then...

And increased ice cream sales means more shark attacks! Oh wait, that's just Summer.

03-26-2009, 08:27 AM

IMO. we need comprehensive immigration reform to move away from our current unfair "quota" system.

The vast majority of immigration visas are currently given to persons with close family (parent/child) that are US citizens, followed by those with highly valued job skills, and then a "diversity" program based on country of origin, with more slots for Europe, followed by Asia, Africa and lastly Central/South America.

If you an unskilled Mexican/Salvadoran with no family here and little education but a commitment to hard work..good luck on getting an immigration visa, other than perhaps a temp visa to be exploited as a migratory and seasonal farm worker.

sugarpop · 03-26-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

IMO. we need comprehensive immigration reform to move away from our current unfair "quota" system.

The vast majority of immigration visas are currently given to persons with close family (parent/child) that are US citizens, followed by those with highly valued job skills, and then a "diversity" program based on country of origin, with more slots for Europe, followed by Asia, Africa and lastly Central/South America.

If you an unskilled Mexican/Salvadoran with no family here and little education but a commitment to hard work..good luck on getting an immigration visa, other than perhaps a temp visa to be exploited as a migratory and seasonal farm worker.

Well, is it really good for the country to import unskilled, illiterate people? Don't we have too many of those already?

And honestly, since we have lost so many jobs, why would we want to let more people in right now? I am all for opening the borders for more LEGAL immigrants, but not right now. After the recession is over. Right now, we need to look out for the people who are legal citizens/immigrants.

Personally, I don't think there should be ANY borders, ANYWHERE. But that will never happen.

03-25-2009, 03:18 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Not a justification, a reality. How could I know the person attacking me was homeless? I can't, but I can know they had green eyes, and any other things I can personally see. There is no way I can know a strangers socio-economic, educational, or religious background, I can only go by appearance in one on one situations. Sure, if you grow up in the city you'll likely be wary of wild animals, from what other people have said, until you have a chance to have your own experiences and form your own opinion. But that wouldn't necessarily keep you from contributing to wildlife support organizations, because as a human being you have the intellectual capacity to reason wild animals are not bad. My intellectual capacity tells me that immigrants are not bad, but people that enter this country illegally are criminals and should be removed, not supported. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-25-2009, 11:35 AM	#4
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Where could that analogy possibly go? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-25-2009, 05:58 PM	#5
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-26-2009, 02:14 AM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Meanwhile, I present without prejudice, Mexico. pfd __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-25-2009, 06:13 PM	#12
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Which has anything to do with the argument how? But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then... __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

03-26-2009, 08:27 AM	#14
Redux Guest Posts: n/a	IMO. we need comprehensive immigration reform to move away from our current unfair "quota" system. The vast majority of immigration visas are currently given to persons with close family (parent/child) that are US citizens, followed by those with highly valued job skills, and then a "diversity" program based on country of origin, with more slots for Europe, followed by Asia, Africa and lastly Central/South America. If you an unskilled Mexican/Salvadoran with no family here and little education but a commitment to hard work..good luck on getting an immigration visa, other than perhaps a temp visa to be exploited as a migratory and seasonal farm worker. Last edited by Redux; 03-26-2009 at 08:33 AM.

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