Professor Gates, Harvard's Pride

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Officer 2, not Crowley, called to see if the wagon was still coming, not calling for one, before the Harvard cops arrived.

After they were called, though, as I've been saying all along. At that point they knew who he was, and police officers who could verify it were on the way (or even there; the transcript doesn't say either way). Calling to cancel the wagon would have made more sense at that point. And the Harvard cops were there when they carted him away.

[TheMercenary]

No evidence of racial profiling.

[TheMercenary]

Someone please tell this dumbass to STF up. It is not about her and her 15 min of fame. No one gives a shit. We have your cracker ass on tape. Move along.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...pH5FgD99OENK00

[Elspode]

For me, the question boils down to this: no one has claimed that the cop came on with attitude first. Why did Gates suppose that he could or should be a dick? Why did he just not say, "This is my residence, officer. If you'll follow me, I'll get my ID to prove that."

Cop looks at ID, apologizes for the inconvenience, explains the reason they are there if Gates asks, tells him they were just watching out for his property and safety, and leaves. No incident.

Having a king sized chip on your shoulder, even though you are within your rights, makes you a dick. A scholarly, educated, Harvard-tenured dick, but a dick nonetheless. And before anyone says it, yes, being a dick is legal. Covered by the First Amendment.

And now, I'm gonna say something, and you can all call *me* racist.

Having a major fucking attitude is verging on being a cultural imperative in the African American community - or at least a significant percentage of it. Making goddamn good and sure *everyone* knows that you are The Shit, all that and a bag of chips, seems to be foremost when asserting one's presence in the world. You don't have to actually *have* any substance to you, but everyone on the planet had damn well better treat you like you do, or you're gonna get even more attitude. And all of that respect is due up front, BTW, no matter how big a piece of shit the person may turn out to be.

So fire away, folks. Tell me what a racist, bigoted fuck I am. Personally, I don't see anything in what went down in the first minute or so at Hahvahd that day that warranted *anyone* being a dick, but then I generally don't get why people seem to feel compelled to be dicks to begin with...regardless of their racial heritage.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Flint hits the nail squarely on the head. White folks are *not* allowed to comment on race. Only people who are *not* white are so allowed, and they can bash away with all the forces of righteousness, without making the qualification that "assholes are assholes, not just white people", and it is not only acceptable, it is *encouraged*.

So I ask us all...which race is more racist? And how are we to have a dialogue towards easing tensions, righting wrongs and coming together if we cannot point out, honestly and openly, our cultural foibles that may work against us?

There are tests of this. Try throwing a White Heritage Festival and see how far you get. Then call for a Caucasian History Month in all schools. Have a White Film Festival, an Association for the Advancement of Caucasian People or a WET (White Entertainment Television - lots of reruns of Leave it to Beaver, I presume). You, the hypothetic organizer, would instantly become the most racist, bigoted person on the planet. Yet each and every one of the proposed entities I speculate above has it's African American counterpart. So how come it isn't racist in that context?

Racist is racist. Like being an asshole, it is not the province of a single color, religion or ethnicity. Racism is a two way street, period. The time has past for standing upon wrongs which cannot be undone, but which have been put as right as they can be at this point in time. Time to stop pointing fingers and to roll up the sleeves and get on with the hard work of getting on.

I agree with the above.

Originally Posted by Elspode

...Having a major fucking attitude is verging on being a cultural imperative in the African American community - or at least a significant percentage of it...

I think you're painting individuals with a wide brush. It's like saying "all Pagans are promiscuous, Christian-hating, imbeciles".

[Elspode]

Would it be fair if I said that I note that a larger percentage of attitudinal, brash, rude assholes seemed to be African American, as opposed to other races, or would I be required to conduct an objective study and cite the resultant figures, adjusted for statistical standard deviation?

And for the record, a larger percentage of sexually promiscuous, Christian-hating people I observe *are* Pagan.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Would it be fair if I said that I note that a larger percentage of attitudinal, brash, rude assholes seemed to be African American, as opposed to other races, or would I be required to conduct an objective study and cite the resultant figures, adjusted for statistical standard deviation?

Well until you conduct that study, it's only your opinion rather than a fact.

[Shawnee123]

Ahh, the most liberal person I know other than me said it too.

It's true. Quit playing victim politics.

Bravo, Els.

[classicman]

Els - : You totally got it.

This is also the biggest non story I can think of off the cuff. Act like an ass to a cop - get what you deserve.

[depmats]

Read a bit further down. That exchange had already happened when he called for the wagon. The Harvard cops were there (to lock the door) when Gates was carted away, so Crowley knew Gates was legit at that point at the latest.

I don't see that it matters one damn bit that Gates was able to prove it was his house because he wasn't arrested for B and E. He was arrested because of his behavior towards the police officers during the course of their investigation. If you want to be a cock to the cops then take your lumps and enjoy your day, don't come crying racism.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by depmats

If you want to be a cock to the cops then take your lumps and enjoy your day, don't come crying racism.

That just bears repeating.

[jinx]

Seems like a clash of 2 egos that demand respect instead of earning it. Only 1 had handcuffs, so the outcome seems pretty obvious. Professor took a knife to a gun fight, so to speak.

[Sundae]

Don't know about "African" anything Els, but being a black person in England does not mean having to have anything.

The black people I know are as different and diverse as the white people.
Chips on shoulders and attitudes and issues are far more dependent on social class, deprivation, family situation, sense of identity and (sadly) religion than they are on colour.

I can't speak for your country. You have a more violent racial history, and more recently, where people can remember their families being hosed, having dogs set on them, being segregated, being denied votes and schooling. Here, it's further back, where people's family memories include partition, colonial rule, Amritsar and all that. I'm not taking the moral high ground.

I'm just saying, while I applauded the first part of your post, the second part shocked me. I think the Professor acted like a cock. I don't care whether he was black, white, or sky-blue-pink. But your post sounds to you like to you it does. Which I find sad.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I can't speak for your country.

Doesn't stop you from trying, does it?

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I think the Professor acted like a cock. I don't care whether he was black, white, or sky-blue-pink. But your post sounds to you like to you it does. Which I find sad.

Did you happen to read anything about the original story? The fact that this man is a career expert in racially inflammatory subjects, sees everything with racially-colored glasses, and was the one that introduced the topic of race into this incident? Yet, in your mind, the pollyannish platitude that race is an invisible, neutral subject trumps everything else (even the facts). Nobody, especially--God forbid--a white American, is allowed to comment on race.

[classicman]

thanks Flint - you beat me to it and were much nicer than that which I was going to say.