What about MY feelings? I'm offended by... - Page 5

Sundae · 11-20-2010, 08:31 AM

I'm confused about the problem.
As I said, here in the UK there are healthier choices available. That didn't come from a Government edict, it came from public pressure. In the same way McDonalds salads did, and only using British and Irish beef did.

The bottom line is that now parents can choose. Nothing stops an overweight five-year-old having a hamburger, fries and a McFlurry five days a week. Nothing but his parents. And believe me, many parents (and Grandparents) do choose the healthier options. The kids don't know any different - they love the Golden Arches and the plastic tables and the toys and they think they are getting away with something!

Despite National Insurance and nationalised healthcare meaning we all pay for "potential healthcare issues", that's the point of living in a representational democracy. People have paid for my depression, for my ongoing issues with alcohol, for the fact I take a PPI which is mostly due to my own poor lifestyle choices.

I honestly don't know if I support local government intervention - I prefer help and support rather than punitive measures. But I can't see why something that assists positive choices (ie along the same lines we have in McDonalds UK) can really be seen as Draconian. Until people's BMI is measured before they are allowed in the door - been advocated by diet extremists - I figure giving choice is not taking away freedom.

Trilby · 11-20-2010, 10:42 AM

How many people in this cellar smoke?

I don't want to pay for their triple bypass surgery, either.

It's always the foodie, alkie or druggie with you people- you never talk about smokes. tsk tsk.

footfootfoot · 11-20-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

How many people in this cellar smoke?

I don't want to pay for their triple bypass surgery, either.

It's always the foodie, alkie or druggie with you people- you never talk about smokes. tsk tsk.

Have you forgotten the Marichiko vs. Lumberjim pay per view cage match already?

Trilby · 11-21-2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Have you forgotten the Marichiko vs. Lumberjim pay per view cage match already?

refresh my memory...

iirc - marichiko, despite her very dire circumstances, smoked the very costly American Spirit cigs...but that's all I remember...

footfootfoot · 11-21-2010, 09:32 AM

That's pretty much it, and LJ called her out on it. Her dire circumstances and her CO poisoning.

hotshot1 · 11-21-2010, 04:05 PM

What if I said that muslims offend me ?

Clodfobble · 11-22-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Are you suggesting the government should make supermarkets remove all cookies, ice cream, prepared foods, candy, etc?

No no... But I wouldn't have a problem with them requiring those food items to be made without chemicals, fillers, and preservatives. Or, say, preventing the McDonald's beef from being rinsed with ammonia, or the McDonald's cheese to actually be made from 100% cheese...

xoxoxoBruce · 11-25-2010, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

No no... But I wouldn't have a problem with them requiring those food items to be made without chemicals, fillers, and preservatives. Or, say, preventing the McDonald's beef from being rinsed with ammonia, or the McDonald's cheese to actually be made from 100% cheese...

That's not what Frisco is doing though, is it?

Clodfobble · 11-25-2010, 11:24 AM

It is, indirectly--they put a maximum amount of allowable sodium in the meal, and a large portion of preservatives are sodium ________. They put a maximum amount of allowable fat, and beef from a higher quality source would simultaneously contain less fat and also not need to be rinsed with ammonia for sanitation.

But to be perfectly honest, another reason I don't have a problem with this is I think putting toys in kids' meals is a bad idea to begin with. How freaking spoiled do our kids have to be, to be entitled to a gift every time they eat? In my house, rewards are attached to doing something meaningful or worthwhile. Frisco didn't say "you can't serve this," or even "you can't serve this to kids." All they said was, you can't bribe the kids with toys, the parents have to make the decision to feed their kids this stuff without any added pressure.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-25-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It is, indirectly--they put a maximum amount of allowable sodium in the meal, and a large portion of preservatives are sodium ________. They put a maximum amount of allowable fat, and beef from a higher quality source would simultaneously contain less fat and also not need to be rinsed with ammonia for sanitation.

But to be perfectly honest, another reason I don't have a problem with this is I think putting toys in kids' meals is a bad idea to begin with. How freaking spoiled do our kids have to be, to be entitled to a gift every time they eat? In my house, rewards are attached to doing something meaningful or worthwhile. Frisco didn't say "you can't serve this," or even "you can't serve this to kids." All they said was, you can't bribe the kids with toys, the parents have to make the decision to feed their kids this stuff without any added pressure.

What you want, or disapprove of, for you and yours is fine, but your can not (not suggesting you are trying to) speak for everyone else.

That's my point, the Frisco City fathers are imposing their wishes on everyone. I don't care if they take a public poll and 99% agree with them, of course if that were true McD's would be boarded up by now. But anyway, the majority don't have the right to impose on the minority in this Republic. Now don't tell me it already happens here or there, I know it does, but that's a matter of having the power not because it's right... it's not.

TheMercenary · 11-25-2010, 01:09 PM

How about some of that buttered popcorn over there?

Pass it please.

Clodfobble · 11-25-2010, 09:39 PM

But you never answered the parallel question... how is it different from a blue-collar employee saying they are willing to take a job at a factory with no safety standards, and it's not fair for OSHA/unions to enforce such safety features on them? How is it different from the government saying you have to wear a seatbelt in your car, even though it's not fair to make the auto industry install them, and to make me pay a higher cost for my car if I want to drive without one? How is it different from saying you can't market cigarettes to minors? I believe there are times when the right choice needs to be legislated, because corporations are not usually going to make the best choice for us as individuals.

Edit to add: Just noticed Merc's comment, and wanted to note that I'm not all in a tizzy about this, I'm just discussing. This is actually a relatively recent philosophical change for me--I have been much more libertarian in the past, but I've realized it's not practical because our society's never going to be hard-hearted enough for it.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-26-2010, 01:49 AM

It's different because it's a city council, singling out just kid's meals, and more specifically with "free" toys.
National standards on the safety of the ingredients, to protect the public, is different than regulating recipes of how those ingredients are put together. I don't eat them often, but every once in awhile I want a big old cheesesteak, with enough grease and salt to dissolved the roll before I can finish it. I certainly don't want the government, especially a stinking city council, saying I can't have one because somebody else might try to let their kid live on the damn things.

If they don't like the way parents are parenting, take it up with them and leave me and McD's out of it. Hopefully the parent will tell them to pound sand. Nobody is forced to go to McD's, it's only one of many options for parents, and from the numbers I've seen, most kids don't go that often.

That's a hell of a lot easier that finding a new job if your employer doesn't provide the option of the proper safety gear. And it is an option. Try as they might, and I've seen some pretty heavy handed trying, companies can't make employees follow safe work practices 100% of the time, except in a very few jobs where the employee is monitored 100% of the time. Just like they can't force people to wear seat belts, only make sure they have the option.

This tin horn city council is taking away choices, and with it personal responsibility, so anyone that supports them is a commie, pinko, socialist, PC nazi, nogoodnik.

Clodfobble · 11-26-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I certainly don't want the government, especially a stinking city council, saying I can't have one because somebody else might try to let their kid live on the damn things.

But they didn't say that. All they said was they can't put a toy inside the bag with your cheesesteak. And if you think the toys don't play a role, just ask my stepdaughter, who at the age of 10 was trying to convince us that she should be allowed to order two kids' meals, because she wanted more food than was in a single kids' meal, but wanted that stupid piece of plastic so badly that she didn't want to order off the adult menu. She was way too old to even care about the things, at least half the time she just threw them away... but it was a free toy, and who knows what it might be?! She didn't want to miss out on that!

Yes, in an ideal world everything ought to be up to the parents. But the reality is, parenting is hard enough without businesses making it more difficult. They are not letting the parents fairly decide what they want for their children, they are deliberately pitting the children against the parents, and hoping that the parents cave to a bad decision. They put toy displays all over the grocery store, and candy displays in all the checkout lines, because they want the kids to make a scene.

Quote:

and from the numbers I've seen, most kids don't go that often.

I'm not buying these stats. Sure, they only go to McDonald's once a month... and they only go to Burger King once a month... and they only go to Chick-Fil-A once a month... and they only go to Taco Bell once a month...

The regular kids that I know--and these are in moderately self-righteous suburban soccer mom circles to begin with, all of these parents would insist they feed their kids "pretty healthy"--they eat at one fast-food place or another about once a week.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-26-2010, 11:18 AM

Businesses have always done this, do you think Sears and Monkey Ward spent a fortune printing and mailing all those catalogs so your outhouse wouldn't run out of paper?

When I was a kid, I frequently suggested that my parents could make me very happy, buying me stuff in the prominent store checkout displays, or "As Seen on TV". I really don't know if it would have made me happy, but apparently it made them happy to ignore my suggestions.
Now Mom's in an $11,000 a month nursing home, so I guess I got over it.

Edit; One nasty, greasy, salty, fast food orgasm a week is hardly going to ruin the health of a kid eating good shit at home. The real problem is kids and mothers have to much free time to get in trouble. If mom was churning butter and beating the laundry on rocks, while the the kids were sorting clinkers from coal down by the tracks, this wouldn't be an issue.

11-20-2010, 10:42 AM	#2
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	How many people in this cellar smoke? I don't want to pay for their triple bypass surgery, either. It's always the foodie, alkie or druggie with you people- you never talk about smokes. tsk tsk. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

11-21-2010, 09:32 AM	#5
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	That's pretty much it, and LJ called her out on it. Her dire circumstances and her CO poisoning. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

11-25-2010, 11:24 AM	#9
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	It is, indirectly--they put a maximum amount of allowable sodium in the meal, and a large portion of preservatives are sodium ________. They put a maximum amount of allowable fat, and beef from a higher quality source would simultaneously contain less fat and also not need to be rinsed with ammonia for sanitation. But to be perfectly honest, another reason I don't have a problem with this is I think putting toys in kids' meals is a bad idea to begin with. How freaking spoiled do our kids have to be, to be entitled to a gift every time they eat? In my house, rewards are attached to doing something meaningful or worthwhile. Frisco didn't say "you can't serve this," or even "you can't serve this to kids." All they said was, you can't bribe the kids with toys, the parents have to make the decision to feed their kids this stuff without any added pressure. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

11-25-2010, 01:09 PM	#11
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	How about some of that buttered popcorn over there? Pass it please. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

11-25-2010, 09:39 PM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	But you never answered the parallel question... how is it different from a blue-collar employee saying they are willing to take a job at a factory with no safety standards, and it's not fair for OSHA/unions to enforce such safety features on them? How is it different from the government saying you have to wear a seatbelt in your car, even though it's not fair to make the auto industry install them, and to make me pay a higher cost for my car if I want to drive without one? How is it different from saying you can't market cigarettes to minors? I believe there are times when the right choice needs to be legislated, because corporations are not usually going to make the best choice for us as individuals. Edit to add: Just noticed Merc's comment, and wanted to note that I'm not all in a tizzy about this, I'm just discussing. This is actually a relatively recent philosophical change for me--I have been much more libertarian in the past, but I've realized it's not practical because our society's never going to be hard-hearted enough for it. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

11-20-2010, 08:31 AM	#1
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'm confused about the problem. As I said, here in the UK there are healthier choices available. That didn't come from a Government edict, it came from public pressure. In the same way McDonalds salads did, and only using British and Irish beef did. The bottom line is that now parents can choose. Nothing stops an overweight five-year-old having a hamburger, fries and a McFlurry five days a week. Nothing but his parents. And believe me, many parents (and Grandparents) do choose the healthier options. The kids don't know any different - they love the Golden Arches and the plastic tables and the toys and they think they are getting away with something! Despite National Insurance and nationalised healthcare meaning we all pay for "potential healthcare issues", that's the point of living in a representational democracy. People have paid for my depression, for my ongoing issues with alcohol, for the fact I take a PPI which is mostly due to my own poor lifestyle choices. I honestly don't know if I support local government intervention - I prefer help and support rather than punitive measures. But I can't see why something that assists positive choices (ie along the same lines we have in McDonalds UK) can really be seen as Draconian. Until people's BMI is measured before they are allowed in the door - been advocated by diet extremists - I figure giving choice is not taking away freedom.

11-21-2010, 04:05 PM	#6
hotshot1 Kinda New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2	What if I said that muslims offend me ?

11-26-2010, 01:49 AM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	It's different because it's a city council, singling out just kid's meals, and more specifically with "free" toys. National standards on the safety of the ingredients, to protect the public, is different than regulating recipes of how those ingredients are put together. I don't eat them often, but every once in awhile I want a big old cheesesteak, with enough grease and salt to dissolved the roll before I can finish it. I certainly don't want the government, especially a stinking city council, saying I can't have one because somebody else might try to let their kid live on the damn things. If they don't like the way parents are parenting, take it up with them and leave me and McD's out of it. Hopefully the parent will tell them to pound sand. Nobody is forced to go to McD's, it's only one of many options for parents, and from the numbers I've seen, most kids don't go that often. That's a hell of a lot easier that finding a new job if your employer doesn't provide the option of the proper safety gear. And it is an option. Try as they might, and I've seen some pretty heavy handed trying, companies can't make employees follow safe work practices 100% of the time, except in a very few jobs where the employee is monitored 100% of the time. Just like they can't force people to wear seat belts, only make sure they have the option. This tin horn city council is taking away choices, and with it personal responsibility, so anyone that supports them is a commie, pinko, socialist, PC nazi, nogoodnik. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-26-2010, 11:18 AM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Businesses have always done this, do you think Sears and Monkey Ward spent a fortune printing and mailing all those catalogs so your outhouse wouldn't run out of paper? When I was a kid, I frequently suggested that my parents could make me very happy, buying me stuff in the prominent store checkout displays, or "As Seen on TV". I really don't know if it would have made me happy, but apparently it made them happy to ignore my suggestions. Now Mom's in an $11,000 a month nursing home, so I guess I got over it. Edit; One nasty, greasy, salty, fast food orgasm a week is hardly going to ruin the health of a kid eating good shit at home. The real problem is kids and mothers have to much free time to get in trouble. If mom was churning butter and beating the laundry on rocks, while the the kids were sorting clinkers from coal down by the tracks, this wouldn't be an issue. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 11-26-2010 at 11:26 AM.

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