Murdoch Meltdown

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You really don't get it, do you? They should all off limits to that misogynous crap, regardless where they live, not just close to home. Like it or not, your choice of words conveys the attitude behind them. It's not moralistic, it's basic decency.

If a person makes a conscious decision to put their picture in a newspaper, and some other moralistic fool rails against it, why is that important?

[classicman]

I was just bustin yer chops man - CHILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

[TheMercenary]

Your choice of "misogynous crap" shows that you have already taken sides. But yet you negate the free choice of the person who posts the picture as if they have no voice or decision in the matter.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Your choice of "misogynous crap" shows that you have already taken sides. But yet you negate the free choice of the person who posts the picture as if they have no voice or decision in the matter.

Their choice doesn't give you the right to call them tarts.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Their choice doesn't give you the right to call them tarts.

Ummmm.... I can call them what ever I want. Just like you made comments about females in my house. And by the way besides my wife I have 2 daughters. So I can make comments about your mother and female children in your house now? Please let me know how you want to proceed.

[TheMercenary]

Don't draw parallels between tarts who post on Page 3 of some tabloid paper in the UK and posters on this forum, including the women in your life and mine, which the US would never tolerate, and the stupid opinions of some moralistic bull shit spouted on this forum..... they are not the same. Don't make this personal; I don't care how much you hate my opinions.

[BigV]

Hey mercy--

You certainly have the right to call any woman any name you like. What you're missing, what everyone else here gets that you *don't get* is that your argument is built on sand. You can't simultaneously beat your breast in righteous indignation about your first amendment right to free speech and in the same breath disallow the same remark by someone else about someone else, who, coincidentally happens to be part of your family. That makes you a complete hypocrite and makes your argument invalid, by virtue of the "except when I say so" stamp of disapproval.

It's ok to talk shit about women, or it's not. Pick one. Just one. Choosing a middle ground opens every other position to the same nuance.

Personally, I find your opinion offensive. You don't know these women. No way. Maybe they are tarts. Maybe they are sluts. The insulting tone of voice is abundantly clear, but you don't get to pass judgement on them without receiving the same judgement by others.

Look. I went to Slutwalk in Seattle a short while ago and there were LOTS of sluts walking with me (heh... I was walking with them, really, no way it was *my* parade, I am just one of the sluts). Leaving aside your hypocrisy for the moment, your derision of women who choose (as you yourself pointed out) to show their tits is up to you. I find it baffling that you can hold both positions in your head at the same time.

Here's a picture that made my whole weekend. I walked up to this young woman and thanked her for the best present Father's Day present I got. Now I offer this same gift to you. If you love your daughters and your wife and your mother, you owe a measure of respect to all women, despite what they wear or don't wear. Emphasis mine.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

Hey mercy--

You certainly have the right to call any woman any name you like. What you're missing, what everyone else here gets that you *don't get* is that your argument is built on sand. You can't simultaneously beat your breast in righteous indignation about your first amendment right to free speech and in the same breath disallow the same remark by someone else about someone else, who, coincidentally happens to be part of your family. That makes you a complete hypocrite and makes your argument invalid, by virtue of the "except when I say so" stamp of disapproval.

That is a silly notion. A person who choses to post on Page 3 of a well know tabloid is the same as a right to free speech I happen to not disagree with... That person has free will and to try to make it out as something else, like a dominate male culture is stupid talk. Once you drag my family into it we are in open season. And if you want to make it personal go for it and expect the same response. I never dragged anyones family into this discussion so your point is utter bullshit....

Personally, I find your opinion offensive. You don't know these women. No way. Maybe they are tarts. Maybe they are sluts. The insulting tone of voice is abundantly clear, but you don't get to pass judgement on them without receiving the same judgement by others.

I don't care.

[sexobon]

Hmmmmmm ... fathers and slutty looking daughters ... perhaps we need a name for them to remind people a relationship still exists ... I've got it ... Pop-Tarts!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

Hey mercy--

You certainly have the right to call any woman any name you like.

And you and others have done is tried to turn it into a false notion that I have a problem with women because I used the word "tart". It starts in post 121. Then onto 145 where I reiterated that I was talking about the paper, not the person who posts on Page 3. And by post 150 it is now about "ALL" women. What bullshit. That is not what I said. Buy 171 I reiterate that it is not about all women.

You can't simultaneously beat your breast in righteous indignation about your first amendment right to free speech and in the same breath disallow the same remark by someone else about someone else, who, coincidentally happens to be part of your family.

Why not? Isn't that suppose to be the major crime here, posting personal comments about peoples family? I have not done that. It amazes me how often you try to turn things I say into Black or White positions you think I have when I don't think like that on most issues, most issues in life are Grey, not one or the other, this or that, that can't or don't adjust from situation to situation.

That makes you a complete hypocrite and makes your argument invalid, by virtue of the "except when I say so" stamp of disapproval.

No, it makes anyone who tries to turn it into some assumption about how I feel about all women in general, and that is more bullshit.

It's ok to talk shit about women, or it's not. Pick one. Just one. Choosing a middle ground opens every other position to the same nuance.

I see it as ok to talk about anything we want, why are these constraints on discussion? But yet people have always gotten into group trouble for talking about family members of the board who they don't know, correct or not? Making that a bit more of a personal attack, correct or not? Even I have been overwhelmingly attacked when I slipped and said something out of context that insulted someone other than the person I was talking with. I tried never to do it again. Plenty of people have made comments like "tart" or "dick" or general comments about men and women and have not been lambasted because the may harbor some great disrespect for one sex or the other? Right or not? So how this one comment by me has been blow out of proportion is beyond me. What a ridiculous notion.

Personally, I find your opinion offensive. You don't know these women. No way. Maybe they are tarts. Maybe they are sluts.

I have not called them "sluts". And to blow this into something it is not by a single post is foolish. It was a passing comment, not some righteous indignation about all women, good God get a grip! Maybe it is nothing more than a difference between UK speak and US speak? Did you ever consider that or are you just another member of the mob ready to pounce when you see something I post that you don't agree with or like?

The insulting tone of voice is abundantly clear, but you don't get to pass judgment on them without receiving the same judgment by others.

No, the obvious read into what you and others want to believe about me is abundantly clear, and the more I get such responses the less I care about the general response, but I choose to respond to you for a number of reasons.

Look. I went to Slutwalk in Seattle a short while ago and there were LOTS of sluts walking with me (heh... I was walking with them, really, no way it was *my* parade, I am just one of the sluts).

Great, I might have been there as well if I lived there and the very thought that you could never believe otherwise says a hell of a lot more about you and what you don't know about me is quite telling.

.. your derision of women who choose (as you yourself pointed out) to show their tits is up to you.

Yea, based on a that one comment you figured all that out about me...

Here's a picture that made my whole weekend. I walked up to this young woman and thanked her for the best present Father's Day present I got. Now I offer this same gift to you. If you love your daughters and your wife and your mother, you owe a measure of respect to all women, despite what they wear or don't wear. Emphasis mine.

And here, even in this last summarizing comment you show that you don't know me in the least bit. I am the last person to judge people by what they wear or don't wear, but what you and the usual gang of people who disagree with me on a host of issues, have done is try to pigeon hole me into what you think I think about a single subject.

[BigV]

mercy, would you please explain why the women in your family deserve a greater amount of respect than the women in the families of the "page three girls"?

[BigV]

mercy, you say "I don't care" AND you say "if you make it personal, expect the same response". Does that mean if I make it personal, about your family, that you don't care?

[ZenGum]

Nice one, respectfullySexybon.

[DanaC]

Y'know. There are times this place restores my faith in humanity. Bruce, Zen, and V, you totally rock. Blokes that get it.

Sexy BonBon: very funny :P


@ Merc: it's really not about wanting to cover up the titties. It's about context and about a determined culture.

[Griff]

Wow, that was spectacular. Once again, nice try Bruce. I guess the bottom line is that free speech allows everyone to expose themselves.