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01-21-2004, 05:54 PM | #61 |
The future is unwritten
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Posted by axlrosen;
If his act really WAS on behalf of all Jews - if every Jewish person in the world signed a letter saying that they authorize the ambassador to protest on their behalf - then you'd have a point. The idea that people believe that every Jew in the world authorized this guy to act on their behalf is crazy. He says he was acting on our behalf, but that doesn't make it true, and that doesn't mean that the world thinks it's true. True or not, there will always be some that will believe it especially considering the mans credentials. The anti-semites will believe it's true and use it to convince others to join their cause.
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01-21-2004, 05:57 PM | #62 | |
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Quote:
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01-21-2004, 06:06 PM | #63 | |
The future is unwritten
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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01-21-2004, 06:15 PM | #64 | |
The future is unwritten
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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01-21-2004, 06:21 PM | #65 | |
Junior Master Dwellar
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"Bet they'll listen now, won't they?" |
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01-21-2004, 06:59 PM | #66 | |
May Ter Dee
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You people just don't listen
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An act of terror is usually the last resort. It shows that a) the person is really desperate b) this matter is very important to him c) he wants to be heard very much d) did I say that the person is desperate? So if you want to draw a parallel correctly, we would need to add that the teacher is starving, his kids are starving, there are no charities there to help him, he is not allowed to move to another place, the kids are stupid, ugly and FAT (because they have enough food). See that? Now I am not saying it would be ok for him to mow down his class with an uzi, that's for him to decide, but what I AM saying is that when he does that, we should not just blame him, the media, computer games, etc. Instead (or in addition to) we should think for a second what forced him to do that (no raise, although it was necessary) and how can we respond to this problem (give a raise to teachers who need it). P.S. Just to be sure - terrorism is the last resort. People with minor concerns would not kill others to be heard (unless they are nuts, which is not relevant to this discussion, or unless we are in a Tarantino film). Only those people, who have something to say that they believe is terribly important, would commit terrorist acts. Obviously, it makes sense to actually listen to their concerns, because that just might be important. You see now? You have any more flawed parallels? |
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01-21-2004, 07:20 PM | #67 | |
I think this line's mostly filler.
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01-21-2004, 07:21 PM | #68 |
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It's not flawed.
let's call our teacher abdul. (horribly stereotypical.) abdul has been talking and talking and talking and trying to effect change in his life and circumstances for 10 years. HE feels pretty desperate. Enough to kill innocent people to get the point across that something needs to be done to improve the situation for his bretheren in his country. Abdul is not being heard, so he devises a way to BE heard. So he goes to the local market, straps a bomb to himself and kills 35 people, and himself in the process. Now lets change the name from Abdul to Mr. Teacher and subsitute market for school. It's a completely valid comparison. What abdul or Mr. Teacher feels is desperate is completely and totally unrelated to what you, me, my mama, President Bush or Saddam fucking Hussein considers desperate. there is NO justification for killing innocent people so you can "be heard". there is no respecting it, no understanding, no compassion, no tolerance of this behavior. it is WRONG. in ANY sense, in ANY "situation" or "parallel", you put forth. it is WRONG. Last edited by OnyxCougar; 01-21-2004 at 07:24 PM. |
01-21-2004, 07:45 PM | #69 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
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It is not a valid comparison. A comparison to your teacher example is Columbine, where a couple of disturbed kids committed a massacre. But, hysterical media reports notwithstanding, it was not a pattern.
If, in the years since Columbine, the number of suicide attacks on schools by children in the US had increased to the level of suicide attacks in Israel, we would be idiots to say "Children these days are evil." instead of trying to rectify the problem in the system.
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01-21-2004, 07:50 PM | #70 |
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So, one teacher "making a statement" and 10 teachers "making a statement" is different?
Because 350 kids died as opposed to "only 35"? So one abdul is a nut and 10 abduls are a "terrorist cell"? Why is one doing it wrong but 10 doing it ok? |
01-21-2004, 07:59 PM | #71 |
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paranoid, if you read the words of the Palestinian suicide bombers, they are not words of desperate people. They are words of hope and glory and resolve to win.
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01-21-2004, 11:13 PM | #72 | |
I think this line's mostly filler.
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01-22-2004, 11:32 AM | #73 | ||
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I agree with you. There are MANY things wrong in MANY parts of the world. But that does not, in ANY way JUSTIFY terrorist attacks.
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Let's talk about the snipers. They did it, for whatever reason, but damn, it sure was important to them, wasn't it? Let's imagine they did it because they believed that the sun is really blue. Now the majority of people think that's pretty crazy. But lets say that all of the people who think the sun is blue start blowing shit up. We should start listening to them now? Why? Because they killed innocent people? That is JUST the kind of bullshit that got us into this position in the first place. "We don't negotiate with terrorists." should be the only rule of thumb. I don't know how to get out of the messes we're in. There are lots of things that suck in many parts of the world. But taking the "we should listen to these desperate people" is not going to make them go away, and it only encourages any group with an agenda to kill people. |
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01-22-2004, 01:44 PM | #74 | |
May Ter Dee
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You may not negotiate with terrorists, that's not relevant here. What you must do is to LISTEN to them. And after you listen to them, you need to take ACTION to REMEDY the situation. And this IS going to make desperate people go away by turning them into NOT DESPERATE people. I think it's pretty simply, really. Of course, if you want to continue ignoring my arguments and attack the strawman with your arguments about snipers and blue Sun, feel free to do it. |
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01-22-2004, 02:02 PM | #75 |
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They aren't desperate.
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