What are the legitimate functions of government?

[juju]

Originally posted by Griff
Correct, but would the Saudis actually hand over Al Queda members who get home?

Why should the Saudi's hand over their own citizens? Would we want to hand over our own citizens to a foreign court?

Copyright is definitely important, and I support it. I write software for a living - if other companies stole it and sold it, I'd have a hard time staying employed. However, software itself is a different issue. I support the government's right to make backup copies of the (hehe) tapes I deliver to them, because if they didn't, I could fuck them out of money to get another copy. If you buy a CD, be it of software or music, you own that CD. Maybe you don't have distribution rights to the contents, but you own that CD. If you want to break it in half, you should be allowed to (and I'm sure no one would dare write or sponsor a law that took that privilege away, heaven forbid you'd want to purchase another copy of their overpriced product). Conversely, if you want to make a backup copy of that CD, should you accidentally break it in half, irrecoverably scratch it or drop it in a river of molten lava, you should be able to. You bought the CD.

The same is true with DVDs, especially in my household, where they are frequently watched. I'm not paying for a license to watch that movie - I am paying for a DVD that happens to contain the movie I want to watch. Maybe I want to make sure I can watch that movie for a long time to come, so I rip it to my hard drive or make a backup DVD of it. This should be perfectly legal, but it is not. Circumventing the Content Scrambling System is illegal under the terms of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. It's completely bogus, but it is illegal. You cannot play a DVD in a standard DVD player unless you have its region code and CSS, but those are in portions of the DVD that are uncopyable, as per the DVD standard. So, of course, if you make a backup copy of your movie, it's virtually useless, and therefore, not an actual backup - more like a hack copy. This is <b>unacceptable</b> - I have purchased some 120 DVDs. What if they are stolen? Am I supposed to eat that loss? That's what the MPAA hope, but that's not acceptable to me. I'd rather have copies, thank you very much, so that even if my DVDs are stolen, I can at least copy them. This is, of course, currently a crime, and one I could be jailed for.

I do not agree with "piracy" (nor do I agree with the practice of that word being used to describe "intellectual property theft"). The issue of IP theft itself is rather fuzzy - one is not actually stealing (as in, revoking the possession of) any property - they're simply copying it and possibly depriving one of revenues, which is also sketchy. But I digress. The fact of the matter is, if I write some really cool software and I decide to charge $100 for each copy of it, that should definitely be protected by copyright laws. But removing the right to make fair-use backups of such materials (as is currently illegal and impossible in the case of DVDs) is, I believe, a greater crime, because it deprives humanity of what I believe is an essential freedom - that to do what you wish with what you have purchased. I work hard so I can buy what I buy, and if I want to eBay it a day later or rip it to mp3 in iTunes, I damn well better be able to. I don't rent CDs - I buy them. Period.

Originally posted by juju2112


Why should the Saudi's hand over their own citizens? Would we want to hand over our own citizens to a foreign court?

If they killed a bunch of their citizens on their soil, we might. It's called extradition, and it happens all the time.

[jaguar]

While i do entirely agree with you, legally you're on very shakey ground, you own the medium but not what's on it.

THe bullshit factor in all this is very high, msotly due to thinks liek the DMCA being steamrollered though the courts by corperate money meaning basicly - you're screwed.

I've ego t a feeling it iwll change though, there is a backlash coming, and i can't wait.

Right. But you're entitled to Fair Use of the contents of the medium, no matter what. The ground is shaky, but in the end, it will work itself out - I'm very much sure of it.

Whether or not I'll live to see that day is another story. Who knows - I may be executed for ripping a CD.

[jaguar]

THisis so offtopic its not funny.
Ut the arguements involved cut ot the core of our economic sturucture of ht efuture - an infomation based economy. Problem i see iwth that is ou currant economy relies of scaristy of goods, only so many tons of gold, HI-Fis, Plums, whatever ot go around. Infomaiton can be replicated 100000000 times and use no finite resources, any attempt to change that is artificial, and tht is the flaw.

[Muse]

Throughout the time of man on earth the numerous structures of governments have done but one thing, exploit their people.

Please post examples of how every government in the history of the world has exploited their people. Thanks.

[Muse]

It's hard to start from somewhere on a broad question. List some governments to me and I'll list how they exploit(ed) their people

[jaguar]

That is a statement so broad that even i wouldn't dare make it.

Uh. No. You made the statement. Back it up

Also.

Originally posted by Muse, or some shit
Throughout the time of man on earth the numerous structures of governments have done but one thing, exploit their people.

Key words there being "but one thing" -

Please explain how they have never done anything except exploit their people. This can maybe be easier than the other one, 'cause it doesn't require such a vast amount of typing.

How has, say, the Canadian government done nothing but exploit their people?

As for where to start on the other one - how about starting with all current countries by alphabetical order, and then going back through history to make sure and cover all the ones that were replaced along the way. Simple!

[Griff]

I guess I read that as one common thread in all governments in all times, they always exploit their people. Sloppy writing but in the sense that I read it, absolutely correct.

Well then, maybe you can write a faithful response to my first request, which was:

Please post examples of how every government in the history of the world has exploited their people.

Unless you know, factually, that there has NEVER existed a government which has refrained from exploiting its people, then you can't really make such a statement. And to know, factually, that there has NEVER been such a government, one needs to research all governments that have ever existed and find irrefutable proof of their exploitation of their people.

I welcome the post with the evidence.

[elSicomoro]

Hmmm...I read it as a broad general statement. Governments have exploited their people through the ages. Every government? Who knows? We don't know of every government that has existed.

Originally posted by Muse, or some shit

Unnecessary.

Originally posted by sycamore
Unnecessary.

You misunderstand.

I quoted that by hand - didn't hit the "quote" button. I typed it all in, code and all.

You've never heard the expression "or some shit"?

Well, if you haven't, that's where that came from. Not as an insult, but kinda like

"Man, she was like, wantin' to get it on or some shit, and I was like 'damn, bitch!'."

One cannot understand voice inflection in words. My apologies for not clarifying that the "or some shit" applied to "Originally posted by" and not to Muse.