What means the most to you in life? - Page 5

juju · 02-15-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
I believe the word you were looking for is "force," not "enforce." And nobody is forcing you to not use graphical smileys. You're just an asshole about them.

No, I meant enforce, as in constrain or compel.

elSicomoro · 02-15-2004, 11:55 PM

Hmmm...so, would you say that you are being held back by The Man?

lumberjim · 02-16-2004, 12:01 AM

Juju's claim that everything on the planet, including man and his machines, is natural is an irrefutable fact. It matters not whether the substance, shape, behavior, or chemical makeup have been altered by man or even aliens. If it came from here, it's from here, and therefore "of nature" or "natural. you cannot argue that point. it's an untrumpable truism. It's also juju's favorite argument to have. hijackey as it might be.

Torrere · 02-16-2004, 12:09 AM

I think that we are on the same path, Shattered: mankind's presence and effect on the environment has changed so rapidly that there aren't many animals who have found a stable niche in the human world (like housecats, cows, barnacles, and probably pigeons have). Most of the animals that <b>have</b> found their way into the human sphere haven't been there long enough to have grown dependent upon us -- Holstein cows being the most notable exception.

I don't like the concept of humans not being animals and having an uncrossable chasm between our idea of 'human' and our idea of 'animal'. I regularly argue with religious folk about this (not so much to try to do anything, as because I think it's fun). However, I do believe that there should be a distinction between 'us' and 'everyone', and that that distinction is "we are humans, and none of the other species in our world are human."

The Romantics were the group of artists and authors etc. who revered transcendence and the supernatural, whom sought to return to nature and considered the cities to be worse than the pasture (in disagreement with most everyone else). Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, and others from that time period are considered Romantics.

mrnoodle · 02-16-2004, 12:45 AM

Quote:

lots of stuff, particularly the bits about what "nature" implies

Dang, and I had thrown in the towel. I want back in on this. Unfortunately, I'm on juju's side now, at least on the "everything is nature simply due to the fact that it exists" notion. It's simply true. HOWever. Now you're getting into philosophy, and treading dangerously close to religion.

If a horse dies in the forest, and no one is there to beat it, does it still make noise?

oo. a new sig. needs an edit though.

JeepNGeorge · 02-16-2004, 02:53 AM

Not to pick nits, but I think the quote goes like this

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it..

Would juju still be an asshat?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-16-2004, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

Ah...there are two groups with the name, then.

Damnit Bruce, once again, you have shown us that there's no reason to put you out to pasture yet. It looked like we might have to after that shoulder injury, but there you go again, you fantastic bastard.

Not only were there two, but the first "Romantics" was at one time called the Supremes, before Ruby hooked up with them. How's that for confusing?

aside- who the hell are you calling fantastic?

elSicomoro · 02-16-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
who the hell are you calling fantastic?

You, you brilliant son of a bitch.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-16-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

You, you brilliant son of a bitch.

Pshaw, I'm a veritable cesspool of information. It's all shit and clear as mud but it covers the ground.

OnyxCougar · 02-16-2004, 09:28 PM

I think there is a difference contextually between man-made and natural (meaning occurs whether man exists or not).

And don't back down, noodle. I think your original posts were spot on.

mrnoodle · 02-16-2004, 11:33 PM

I don't have to, now. Found a book. The Brave Cowboy by Edward Abbey. He uses a whole book to explain it. Tons and tons of great stuff. Invaluable.

The Brave Cowboy

^^^^^^^^^
That's what I was talking about.

MomentsAre · 02-17-2004, 06:54 AM

Do you realize that when you say that man's existence is tampering with what is "natural", you are implying that man's exitence is somehow inferior to the "natural way" of things? An ocean creates errosion. It houses fish and aquatic plants and such. If the ocean had such an inferiority complex, it would spend just as much time arguing with the other oceans about how all they do is destroy land and house a bunch of icky fish and how things would be more "natural" had they not been around in the first place.

It is "natural" for a man to build, destroy, kill mosquitos, or whatever it is that a man does because it is inside of him. Just like the instinct to kill bunnies is inside a fox and little beavers who cut down trees and destroy forrests (those little destructive un natural beings!!!).

Whatever is happening, no matter how much plastic is involved, or other man-made elements, is the most natural thing that can be happening in that moment.

If you're the religious type, then I think it said in the bible that God created Man in his own image, which I translate to mean that man can create other things from the earth, if he wishes, even if it isn't biodegradable like diapers.

I think juju was only saying that the word "nautral" is possibly more of a multidemensional word, and when analyzing its true meaning, it's kind of neat that even surrounded by "unnaturally occuring" elements, we are still surrounded by nature, becuase we are surrounded by the human nature that created those unnatural things.

I don't think his comments have anything to do with being in college or living in Arkansas, though it is an interesting side note that Arkansas is called "the natural state".

dar512 · 02-17-2004, 04:54 PM

To hijack this thread back:

My family. Church. Making music. Going on bike rides.

On the hijacked topic:

I don't hunt now, because I don't have the time or the place. But it gave me the same sort of feeling as when I was riding my bike to and from work. On the bike, it was nice to know that I could get where I needed to go under my own power and didn't have to depend on a car to get me there. When I was hunting, it was nice to know that I could get my own food.

warch · 02-17-2004, 05:03 PM

love.

lumberjim · 02-17-2004, 05:04 PM

what kind of love?

02-16-2004, 12:01 AM	#63
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	Juju's claim that everything on the planet, including man and his machines, is natural is an irrefutable fact. It matters not whether the substance, shape, behavior, or chemical makeup have been altered by man or even aliens. If it came from here, it's from here, and therefore "of nature" or "natural. you cannot argue that point. it's an untrumpable truism. It's also juju's favorite argument to have. hijackey as it might be. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

02-16-2004, 11:33 PM	#71
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	I don't have to, now. Found a book. The Brave Cowboy by Edward Abbey. He uses a whole book to explain it. Tons and tons of great stuff. Invaluable. The Brave Cowboy ^^^^^^^^^ That's what I was talking about. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

02-17-2004, 05:04 PM	#75
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	what kind of love? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

02-15-2004, 11:55 PM	#62
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Hmmm...so, would you say that you are being held back by The Man?

02-16-2004, 12:09 AM	#64
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	I think that we are on the same path, Shattered: mankind's presence and effect on the environment has changed so rapidly that there aren't many animals who have found a stable niche in the human world (like housecats, cows, barnacles, and probably pigeons have). Most of the animals that <b>have</b> found their way into the human sphere haven't been there long enough to have grown dependent upon us -- Holstein cows being the most notable exception. I don't like the concept of humans not being animals and having an uncrossable chasm between our idea of 'human' and our idea of 'animal'. I regularly argue with religious folk about this (not so much to try to do anything, as because I think it's fun). However, I do believe that there should be a distinction between 'us' and 'everyone', and that that distinction is "we are humans, and none of the other species in our world are human." The Romantics were the group of artists and authors etc. who revered transcendence and the supernatural, whom sought to return to nature and considered the cities to be worse than the pasture (in disagreement with most everyone else). Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, and others from that time period are considered Romantics.

02-16-2004, 02:53 AM	#66
JeepNGeorge Hand-of-Kindness Extender Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Where am I? Posts: 139	Not to pick nits, but I think the quote goes like this If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it.. Would juju still be an asshat?

02-16-2004, 09:28 PM	#70
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	I think there is a difference contextually between man-made and natural (meaning occurs whether man exists or not). And don't back down, noodle. I think your original posts were spot on.

02-17-2004, 06:54 AM	#72
MomentsAre Excellent buyer!!! Fast payment!!!! A++++++++ Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 11	Do you realize that when you say that man's existence is tampering with what is "natural", you are implying that man's exitence is somehow inferior to the "natural way" of things? An ocean creates errosion. It houses fish and aquatic plants and such. If the ocean had such an inferiority complex, it would spend just as much time arguing with the other oceans about how all they do is destroy land and house a bunch of icky fish and how things would be more "natural" had they not been around in the first place. It is "natural" for a man to build, destroy, kill mosquitos, or whatever it is that a man does because it is inside of him. Just like the instinct to kill bunnies is inside a fox and little beavers who cut down trees and destroy forrests (those little destructive un natural beings!!!). Whatever is happening, no matter how much plastic is involved, or other man-made elements, is the most natural thing that can be happening in that moment. If you're the religious type, then I think it said in the bible that God created Man in his own image, which I translate to mean that man can create other things from the earth, if he wishes, even if it isn't biodegradable like diapers. I think juju was only saying that the word "nautral" is possibly more of a multidemensional word, and when analyzing its true meaning, it's kind of neat that even surrounded by "unnaturally occuring" elements, we are still surrounded by nature, becuase we are surrounded by the human nature that created those unnatural things. I don't think his comments have anything to do with being in college or living in Arkansas, though it is an interesting side note that Arkansas is called "the natural state".

02-17-2004, 04:54 PM	#73
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	To hijack this thread back: My family. Church. Making music. Going on bike rides. On the hijacked topic: I don't hunt now, because I don't have the time or the place. But it gave me the same sort of feeling as when I was riding my bike to and from work. On the bike, it was nice to know that I could get where I needed to go under my own power and didn't have to depend on a car to get me there. When I was hunting, it was nice to know that I could get my own food.

02-17-2004, 05:03 PM	#74
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	love.

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