Our Militarized Society

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

...
btw, i support the officer. he had this 300 lb kid pounding him and when he tried to take him into custody the guy charged him. fits totally within the accepted use of force continuum.

I don't think either side's version has been vetted properly yet.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The witnesses said, boy=good, cop=bad. No surprise there. I can see them all wearing warn-a-brother shirts, locked arm in arm, high kicking in unison like the Rockettes. This is the reaction to years of cops covering up mistakes/misbehavior by cops, truth be damned. First allowing, then (probably as part of rationalizing to others & themselves) condoning, finally approving, cops bullying citizens.

Maybe not a civilian/cop issue so much as a black/white issue

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's part of the polarization of America. Aiding the divide and conquer strategy to retain control of the minions, by the oligarchs. Strategy, is giving them too much credit, though. They do guide and nudge, but the path to division is human nature. There must be an Us and Them, otherwise I wouldn't know who to watch out for, and more importantly I wouldn't have anyone to blame when I fuck up.

True dat

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I don't think either side's version has been vetted properly yet.

True words. The cop who shot the kid may end up being the only innocent person in this whole mess... or not. Importantly, he events have finally shined a light on the direction policing is going in this country.

I see Egypt is criticizing our use of force. If Egypt is scoring on you you're running the wrong defense.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What a well written article. Made me want to cry.

It could also be a nicely written work of fiction. Notice the lack of details as to location or identity of persons involved. Her only photograph is of a vacant sidewalk. No sign of street musicians, etc.

As far as the autopsy, the only released reporting is from the forensic pathologist hired by the family. His assistant was interviewed on CNN and admitted that they didn't know what wounds might have been caused in the car and the autopsy could not refute the officer's account.

supporting the officer is http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...uson-shooting/

In use of force classes I taught for years, we played video tapes illustrating that a person with a knife at a distance of 26 feet could rush and stab an officer before he could draw his weapon. This is info is to illustrate the danger zone for officers.

We had an injured officer facing a man that seconds before had tried to take his gun. If the officer was in legitimate fear of his life (I would have been), he was justified in shooting to stop the threat of a charging much larger assailant.

Don't think Big Mike is such a sweet little lad. Minutes before he had committed a strong armed robbery where he had turned back as leaving the store and advanced again on that victim.

Two sides to a coin. What would you have done if he was charging you with intent to commit another felonious act??

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

It could also be a nicely written work of fiction. Notice the lack of details as to location or identity of persons involved. Her only photograph is of a vacant sidewalk. No sign of street musicians, etc.

We know who wrote it, it's on her webpage, complete with her picture. She said los Angeles, does the street address make a difference?
I doubt she got the name of the street performer, and bet she didn't get the names of the hecklers. Would the name of the man make a difference? Gonna run him through R & I for his rap sheet to see if he ever sat on bench W?

C'mon, you were looking for ants with a magnifying glass, and missed the anthill.

[Big Sarge]

Pia Glenn is an actress and not a reporter. Her ex is Salman Rushdie says she is unstable.

A furious Rushdie told us yesterday, “The reason I broke up with Pia Glenn is that I came to feel that she’s an unstable person who carries around a large, radioactive bucket of stress wherever she goes. It was just exhausting to deal with.
“Her recent explosions . . . demonstrate that she is also an accomplished liar.
“It is hard even to list the untruths in her article. We never lived together — she lived at her father’s home in Freeport, LI. We never agreed to have children together. Our relationship lasted five and a half months, so it’s hard to see how I ‘stole a year’ of her life.
“What most distresses me, however, is her statement that I am still ‘obsessed’ with my ex-wife, Padma Lakshmi. When my marriage to Padma ended I was saddened and hurt, that’s true, but that was two and a half years ago, and, like any adult, I have accepted the world as it is.
“As any of my friends can attest, I long ago turned the page and moved on. It’s absurd of Ms. Glenn to say otherwise. I wish Padma nothing but the best, particularly now that she is expecting, and have written to her to congratulate her. End of story.”
To make matters worse, Rushdie said Glenn had besieged him with calls, forcing him to hang up. He said, “She is plainly confused, and desperate for attention. I’m sorry for her and I hope she gets well soon.”
Rushdie added in a statement: “She’s broke, unemployed . . . and obviously decided to sell me out.

Pia is also one of the famous panelists that made fun of Mitt Romney's grandson.

When the photo was put up, things started off light with Perry saying, “Everybody loves a baby picture, and this was one that really, a lot of people had emotions about this baby picture this year. This is the Romney family. And, of course, there on Governor Romney’s knee is his adopted grandson, who is an African-American, adopted African-American child, Kieran Romney.”
From there, the jokes came with panelist Pia Glenn singing, “One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn’t the same.” She joked after her song that “that little baby, front and center, would be the one.”
- See more at: http://madamenoire.com/336678/meliss....dg4HFNsz.dpuf

She really seems to lack credibility if you read some of tweets

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Pia Glenn is an actress and not a reporter.

So what? It's not breaking news, she wrote about one incident she observed/experienced, and the undercurrent of feelings by people who consider this a never ending story. I accept that you don't get it, and never will.

Her ex is Salman Rushdie says she is unstable.

Your opinion of her is based on her ex badmouthing her? OMG

[gvidas]

Sarge, I read this article and thought of you. It's a veteran itemizing the weapons, ammunition, and equipment used against the protesters in Ferguson.

http://www.thenation.com/article/181...olice-weaponry

There is a growing chorus of military veterans who have chimed in on the absurdity of photographs like this one. Let me join the parade. What we’re seeing here is a gaggle of cops wearing more elite killing gear than your average squad leader leading a foot patrol through the most hostile sands or hills of Afghanistan. They are equipped with Kevlar helmets, assault-friendly gas masks, combat gloves and knee pads (all four of them), woodland Marine Pattern utility trousers, tactical body armor vests, about 120 to 180 rounds for each shooter, semiautomatic pistols attached to their thighs, disposable handcuff restraints hanging from their vests, close-quarter-battle receivers for their M4 carbine rifles and Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights. In other words, they’re itching for a fight. A big one. It’s a well-known horror that the US military greets foreign peoples in this fashion as our politicians preach freedom, democracy and peace. It’s an abomination that the police greet black communities in the States with the same trigger-happy posture. Especially on the occasion of an unarmed teen’s death by cop.

[DanaC]

Interesting piece in the Guardian:

It’s difficult to view citizens as partners when you’re looking at them through a Kevlar helmet and a riot shield – or when you have failed to build a culture of trust and then you add military equipment and tactics to a combustible mix of racial discrimination and little police accountability. This explosive combination makes policing significantly less effective, and dramatically less safe for everybody.

It’s no wonder so many cops – like some of those in Ferguson, Missouri – view their own community as the enemy when they spend their time geared for combat. It’s no wonder why they, in return, are viewed as an occupying force.

I was the city police chief during 1999’s so-called “Battle in Seattle,” the clash between anti-globalization protesters and my police officers. I realize now that the way we looked – and the way we behaved – provoked and exacerbated the violence. My decision to authorize the use of so-called “hard gear” (black uniforms with ballistic helmets and face shields, and the use of chemical agents) in our interactions with nonviolent, nonthreatening World Trade Organization demonstrators heightened tensions and put everyone – cops and citizens – at greater risk. The militarization of the WTO protests did untold damage to our efforts to build a positive, trusting partnership with our community.

It may be too late to have prevented violence in Ferguson, but the community and others like it must come together now and make immediate changes to establish a baseline of behavior for law enforcement – to abide by today and to build upon for the future. The situation in Ferguson is no longer just about Michael Brown’s death: it’s about systemic racism and patterns of neglect, about leadership and the ability to influence angry, sometimes criminally motivated, individuals. Beyond the lifted curfews and long after the National Guard’s presence attempts to restore some semblance of peace, real accountability for everyone’s actions – cops and citizens – is imperative.

-snip-


Meanwhile, the police department needs to immediately begin a process of demilitarization and replace the military model with a community policing model. As part of that, they should adopt the “Memphis model” of crisis intervention – requiring every employee to undergo a week of intensive training in defusing and de-escalation techniques conducted by mental health and communications experts. And they need to prohibit Swat operations for anything other than school shootings, armed hostage situations and other immediate crises when negotiations fail and lives are at stake. So should every police department in America.

It’s clear that Ferguson’s police officers, politicians and community leaders haven’t yet really embraced a philosophy of “community policing”, and that they weren’t working in partnership to identify and solve crime, traffic and other community-police problems – not with a police force that is 93% white in a city that is two-thirds black, or with a trove of military garb waiting in the wings. Some in the Ferguson area, like Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson, understand the basics. But you can’t reverse the effects of years of military-style policing in a few hours of walking among protesters.

Still, law enforcement officers in Ferguson – and in so many other places – need to start somewhere. They need to start here ... or else they’ll just keep failing in all the same ways

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ce-punish-cops

[Big Sarge]

The community oriented policing has not worked well. NYC is using the broken window system and is having more success. I do agree with all of you that the police are becoming far too militarized and causes long term problems.

A little update on the officer - he suffered an orbital blowout fracture to his eye socket.

[Clodfobble]

Sarge, I think a lot of people would agree that the actual incident is muddy, and maybe the cop was even right. Even if he wasn't, bad shootings happen all the time; it's unfortunate but not stunning. The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.

I am a huge supporter of the "broken window" philosophy as well.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.

Considering that alternatives up 'til now haven't worked, what should the response have been? It's just a modern Boston Tea Party.

Here's an interesting piece -

In 2013, British police officers fired their weapons all of three times. No one died.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-1...ll-last-year-3

[glatt]

What's the "broken window" philosophy?

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Considering that alternatives up 'til now haven't worked, what should the response have been? It's just a modern Boston Tea Party.

Here's an interesting piece -

In 2013, British police officers fired their weapons all of three times. No one died.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-1...ll-last-year-3

Looks like the Brits need more target practice.

I took this from wiki rather tediously typing a response from my text books:

The broken windows theory was first introduced by social scientists James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling, in an article titled "Broken Windows" which appeared in the March 1982 edition of The Atlantic Monthly.[1] The title comes from the following example:

Consider a building with a few broken windows. If the windows are not repaired, the tendency is for vandals to break a few more windows. Eventually, they may even break into the building, and if it's unoccupied, perhaps become squatters or light fires inside.

Or consider a pavement. Some litter accumulates. Soon, more litter accumulates. Eventually, people even start leaving bags of refuse from take-out restaurants there or even break into cars.

Before the introduction of this theory by Wilson and Kelling, Philip Zimbardo, a Stanford psychologist, arranged an experiment testing the broken-window theory in 1969. Zimbardo arranged for an automobile with no license plates and the hood up to be parked idle in a Bronx neighbourhood and a second automobile in the same condition to be set up in Palo Alto, California. The car in the Bronx was attacked within minutes of its abandonment. Zimbardo noted that the first "vandals" to arrive were a family – a father, mother and a young son – who removed the radiator and battery. Within twenty four hours of its abandonment, everything of value had been stripped from the vehicle. After that, the car's windows were smashed in, parts torn, upholstery ripped, and children were using the car as a playground. At the same time, the vehicle sitting idle in Palo Alto, California sat untouched for more than a week. Then Zimbardo himself went up to the vehicle and deliberately smashed it with a sledgehammer. Soon after, people joined in for the destruction. Zimbardo observed that majority of the adult "vandals" in both cases were primarily well dressed, clean-cut and respectable whites. It is believed that in a neighborhood such as the Bronx where the history of abandoned property and theft are more prevalent, vandalism occurs much more quickly as the community generally seems apathetic. Similar events can occur in any civilized community when communal barriers – the sense of mutual regard and obligations of civility – are lowered by actions that suggests apathy.[1][page needed]

The article received a great deal of attention and was very widely cited. A 1996 criminology and urban sociology book, Fixing Broken Windows: Restoring Order and Reducing Crime in Our Communities by George L. Kelling and Catharine Coles, is based on the article but develops the argument in greater detail. It discusses the theory in relation to crime and strategies to contain or eliminate crime from urban neighborhoods.[2]

A successful strategy for preventing vandalism, say the book's authors, is to fix the problems when they are small. Repair the broken windows within a short time, say, a day or a week, and the tendency is that vandals are much less likely to break more windows or do further damage. Clean up the sidewalk every day, and the tendency is for litter not to accumulate (or for the rate of littering to be much less). Problems do not escalate and thus respectable residents do not flee a neighborhood.

Although work done by the police is crucial towards crime prevention, Oscar Newman, in his 1972 book, Defensible Space, explained that the presence of the police authority is just not enough for a safe and crime-free city. People in the community also need to lend a hand towards crime prevention. The theory that Newman proposes is that people will take care of and protect their own spaces they feel they have an investment in, arguing that an area will eventually be safer if the people feel a sense of ownership and responsibility towards the area. The reason why broken windows and acts of vandalism are still prevalent is because communities simply do not seem to care about the damage. Regardless of how many times the windows have been repaired, the society still has to invest some of their time to keep it safe. The negligence of society towards any form of a "broken window" signifies a lack of concern for the community. Newman states this as a clear sign that the society has accepted this disorder, allowing for the unrepaired broken windows to display the vulnerability and lack of defense against the situation.[3] Malcolm Gladwell also relates this theory to the reality of NYC in his book The Tipping Point.[4]

The theory thus makes two major claims: that further petty crime and low-level anti-social behavior will be deterred, and that major crime will be prevented as a result. Criticism of the theory has tended to focus only on the latter claim.

[glatt]

I'd heard of that "broken window" theory before, but it has nothing to do with policing. It's about a society keeping the neighborhood in good repair.

Is there some sort of "broken window" theory for policing?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Sarge, I think a lot of people would agree that the actual incident is muddy, and maybe the cop was even right. Even if he wasn't, bad shootings happen all the time; it's unfortunate but not stunning. The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.
--snip

Bullseye. Exactly right.