Government Shut Down

[Lamplighter]

I understood that the maneuver was to prevent any House members (Dem or GOP)
from calling up or introducing a "clean Bill" for the shut down or debt limit.

Boehner just may have given the bullet for Cantor's gun to replace him as Speaker

[Lamplighter]

For the Adak's and others who think a default would have no effect...

NY times
MARK LANDLER
October 15, 2013

Seeing Its Own Money at Risk, China Rails at U.S.

WASHINGTON — China has become shrill in its criticism of the fiscal train wreck in the United States,
arguing that the answer to a potential government default is to begin creating a “de-Americanized world.”
Beijing’s alarm is understandable, given that it is the world’s largest investor in American public debt,
with at least $1.3 trillion in holdings.
<snip>
It called for the replacement of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency
“so that the international community could permanently stay away from the spillover
of the intensifying domestic political turmoil in the United States.”

“As U.S. politicians of both political parties are still shuffling back and forth ...
“it is perhaps a good time for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world.”
<snip>
Edwin M. Truman, an economist and former Treasury Department official, said:
“This is political blather. It is a politically defensive response to the choices China has made.”

That does not mean a brush with default will not have long-term damaging consequences
for the United States. Even if China continues to buy Treasury bonds, economists said,
it may opt for those with shorter maturities, which would drive up long-term interest rates
in the United States, hurting home buyers and owners of small businesses.

Japan is also starting to rumble publicly along these lines.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's hard to follow all this. I don't want to invest the time.

Didn't the Republicans change the rules so Cantor is the only one who can bring a bill? They know that the majority of the House has gone on record that they would support the Senate bill to fund the government and debt, and so to keep moderate Republicans from submitting that bill, they changed the rules so that only Cantor can do it. They want him to be in charge.

I honestly don't know what power Boehner has left. What is his power?

Cantor is the only one who can file a discharge petition which would start a process that, with enough support among the rest of Congress, could bring a bill to the floor without Boehner's support.

Boehner can bring any bill he likes to the floor whenever he wants.

The discharge petition was supposed to be a way to break the type of logjam that the tea party caused. It's convenient and efficient to have a Speaker who runs things, but the discharge petition was supposed to be a way for a majority of congresspeople regardless of party, to overrule the Speaker in special circumstances. The House GOP leadership changed the rule to prevent that.

[glatt]

Thank you!

[henry quirk]

"...others who think a default would have no effect..."

Assuming it gets that far: of course it'll have an effect.

That's what I'm countin' on.

[tw]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Assuming it gets that far: of course it'll have an effect.

That's what I'm countin' on.

So you love it that extremists are playing right into China's hand. China has long wanted the US dollar removed as a world standard. They make a compelling argument to the world. The US is so full of extremists that cannot see beyond their nose, then that dollar should be replaced by a basket of currencies.

Of course extremist will say that is not a problem. These are the same people who created that massive recession in 2007 - almost created another 1929 and 40% unemployment. People forget how close we came to falling off the cliff because wackos said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter" and even tried to put Social Security into the stock market.

Apparently extremist routinely forget the lesson of history – especially their own mistakes.

Ironically, I make money if the wacko extremists do make America fail. Says how much faith I have in Cantor and the boys.

[Lamplighter]

I guess my sense of humor towards the GOP is returning... slowly.
How about this headline...

Forbes
Rick Ungar
10/16/2013
The Houston Chronicle Un-Endorses Ted Cruz

<snip>
Who would have guessed that, just one week later, the conservative Houston Chronicle
—the newspaper that handed Cruz a critical and key endorsement in his campaign
to become the next senator from the Lone Star State—would agree with me by way
of publishing something you just don’t see every day—an un-endorsement of Senator Cruz?

Under the title, “Why we miss Kay Bailey Hutchison”, the editorial board
of the newspaper published on op-ed Tuesday evening wherein they write*—

UPDATE: October 16, 2013 4:48pm:

I’ve just had a phone conversation with Veronica Flores-Paniagua,
the Outlook Editor for The Houston Chronicle, who states that the paper
did not un-endorse Senator Cruz but were merely being critical of him.

It should be noted that when I asked Ms. Flores-Paniagua if the paper
would endorse Senator Cruz if the election were being held today,
she chose not to respond to the question.

[Happy Monkey]

The Senate has passed:

Originally Posted by Daily Kos

• A continuing resolution funding government through Jan. 15;
• An increase in the debt ceiling until Feb. 7, but it also continues the ability of the Treasury to use extraordinary measures to extend that period, so that's not a drop dead date. It also includes language allowing President Obama to waive the debt ceiling, which could be overridden by a vote of disapproval by Congress that could then be vetoed by the president;
• New rules for income verification for Obamacare subsidies, requiring the government to "certify to the Congress that the Exchanges verify such eligibility." It does not interfere with or prevent Obamacare enrollments;
• Reimbursement of lost pay to federal workers furloughed during the shutdown;
• Reimbursement to states for any money they spent to replace lost federal funding during the shutdown;
• Up to $450 million to the Department of Transportation to rebuild infrastructure destroyed in last month's Colorado floods;
• $3.1 million to the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (yeah, that one's a head-scratcher); and
• $174,000 to the widow of Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), who died in June (another head-scratcher).

On to the House.

The "Obama can waive the debt ceiling" thing is interesting. I'm sure if he does it, he'll be screamed at, but if he waits to the last second he can appear all "Daddy disciplining the squabbling children", and Boehner can then be all "I would have fought to my last breath, but Obama stopped me". Win-win.

[Happy Monkey]

And it's over (for a few months). With 87 Republicans voting aye.

Would have been nice if they'd done it a couple of weeks ago.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And it's over (for a few months). With 87 Republicans voting aye.

Would have been nice if they'd done it a couple of weeks ago.

What did the Republicans / Conservatives get out of this whole shut down?

Pro's:
1) They mobilized their base - they hadn't done that in a long time.

2) They let Obama show himself as the scumbag he is.

Con's:

1) They lacked a coherent strategy. This is a government, at some point you have to reach a compromise with the other party.

They had no way of forcing a compromise. Naturally, Obama and Reid will not easily compromise.

2) They got blamed for most of the problems of the shut down, imo. Obama was an ass-hole about the War Memorials and Cemeteries, but overall, the Conservatives took most of the blame for it.

3) Any hint of working together, party to party, evaporated immediately.

Overall, it was an unwise move by the Conservatives. You don't start walking until you have decided where you're going, and how you're going to get there.

The whole exercise reminded me of the WWII FIRST amphibious landing in the north of France, at Dieppe.

It was a complete disaster.

A total of 3,623 of the 6,086 men (almost 60%) who made it ashore were either killed, wounded, or captured.[4] The Royal Air Force failed to lure the Luftwaffe into open battle, and lost 96 aircraft (at least 32 to flak or accidents), compared to 48 lost by the Luftwaffe.[5] The Royal Navy lost 33 landing craft and one destroyer.

OK, it wasn't THAT bad, but it certainly wasn't a well thought out political move.

[Pete Zicato]

Amen to that.

[infinite monkey]

Crap. I was expecting fireworks and stuff at midnight. This was the most boring government shutdown EVER!

[DanaC]

I don't see how this has exposed Obama as anything but an embattled president being held to ransom by unreasonable opposition.

Ordinary, mainstream conservatives must be so sick of this stuff. How can they fly the flag of fiscal competency with this sort of shit coming from their ranks?

The damage the Tea Party Republicans have done to America's standing in the world is profound. No matter what else, America's status as an economic powerhouse has never been more under threat. Having heard the same people rail against Obama for making America 'look weak' to her enemies by, for example, talking to Iran, it is surreal to me that they would voluntarily make their country look like it's a borderline failed state.

The time for arguments and compromises was during the debates leading up to the passing of the budget and the passing of the Affordable Care Act. democrats compromised heavily. They all but compromised away most of the useful features of that act and pretty much gave the republicans the budget they asked for.
For the Republicans to then balk at paying the bills or enacting that compromise was absurd.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I don't see how this has exposed Obama as anything but an embattled president being held to ransom by unreasonable opposition.

The mark of a great President is acknowledging the concerns of both parties, and helping to bring the people and parties, together. Compromises are the keystone needed to make a great government, work.

Not stick it to the people he's supposed to be serving! Going to extra expense to close the open air memorials in Washington (WWII, Lincoln, MLKing, and Vietnam), and the memorial cemeteries in France (most notably around Normandy Beaches).

That cemented Obama as an ass-wipe forever. Obama had ALL the cards here:

1) Dominant party in the Senate, and a strong minority even in the House. The Democrats are all united, as well, whereas the Republicans are split moderates and very conservative.

2) ACA/Obamacare was already law. There is no way the funding can not go through, regardless of what the Conservatives in the House or Senate, do. It's too late for that.

All Obama had to do was have a conference with the Conservatives, and make some slight compromises. Not to cut Obamacare, of course, that was never possible, just find something to give up as a symbol of the give and take politicians make to each other, all the time. I'm not saying it was his duty to do it, but it would have been a great sign of working together, to keep the gov't running, and our two parties being civil to one another. The substance could be quite small. It's all about saving face, showing a bit of respect for the opposition party, and everyone goes home a winner.

Instead, Obama saw a chance to win win win, playing political gamesmanship. I'm not saying that the Republicans didn't start the game, but clearly it was an error, and it SCREAMED for a victor to be magnanimous in his triumph. But Obama would rather barricade off the WWII Memorial, so the 80 year old "Honor Flight" vets from the Midwest, can't get in to see it before they die. These are all WWII vets, for Christ's sake! And that memorial belongs to the PEOPLE, the gov't just has custodial care.

Ordinary, mainstream conservatives must be so sick of this stuff. How can they fly the flag of fiscal competency with this sort of shit coming from their ranks?

The damage the Tea Party Republicans have done to America's standing in the world is profound. No matter what else, America's status as an economic powerhouse has never been more under threat. Having heard the same people rail against Obama for making America 'look weak' to her enemies by, for example, talking to Iran, it is surreal to me that they would voluntarily make their country look like it's a borderline failed state.

The time for arguments and compromises was during the debates leading up to the passing of the budget and the passing of the Affordable Care Act. democrats compromised heavily. They all but compromised away most of the useful features of that act and pretty much gave the republicans the budget they asked for.
For the Republicans to then balk at paying the bills or enacting that compromise was absurd.

The damage wasn't from the Tea Party Republicans! The damage was from the Conservatives starting a stupid political maneuver, that was not thought out. Worse still, they weren't even united on what they were going to do; what they were going to support, and what they were NOT going to support.

The focus was on Obamacare - which is already law, and they can't get enough votes to repeal it. So what's the sense in fighting against it?
Not much! Not that I can see.

That's why Obama had them where he couldn't lose. Just no way. That's where a really good president would have gone into conference with the Conservatives, and worked out a quick compromise to keep the gov't running normally. Instead, he has the NIH drug trials refuse to register new (terminal) cancer victims, into it's trials.They can't register (put a name and data into the computer), to save lives?? The doctors are there working, the nurses are there working, the trials are still on-going and new ones being started, but they can't REGISTER a new patient now?

That's SOO scummy. I feel dirty just entering this into a reply.

But this was the dumbest political maneuver I've seen in a long time, for sure.

[Griff]

You've also motivated this independent voter to rearrange who he'd vote for and that harms the GOP unless I see the moderates push back. I don't like Obama even a little after the NSA revelations, continued CIA nonsense in the Middle-East, and ongoing drone attacks but no way does he share fault on this one. Congress had already passed compromise legislation and one unhappy little group of douche-bags tried an end run around the system because they didn't like the compromises that earned the votes.