Terri Schiavo's Parents Seek Divorce on Her Behalf - Page 10

Kitsune · 03-23-2005, 08:47 PM

Dead or alive, it really dont matter. Yahoo! Think of the coverage!

That is what most seem to think: Politically, this is a disaster for Democrats. Live or die, the Democrats voted for murder. I'm sure we'll be hearing about this for years.

BigV · 03-23-2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Dead or alive, it really dont matter. Yahoo! Think of the coverage!

That is what most seem to think: Politically, this is a disaster for Democrats. Live or die, the Democrats voted for murder. I'm sure we'll be hearing about this for years.

Yeah, sure. Some will spin it this way. Here's an alternate spin.

Democrats voted their conscience. Republicans voted as they were told.

Or, Democrats voted for the rule of law, and Republicans voted to ignore and override the rule of law.

spin is spin, only the volume and quantity matter.

Undertoad · 03-23-2005, 08:52 PM

Once it's over it'll be dropped, immediately, not to be heard of again.

Reason: the people are split 60/30 in favor of letting her die. (10% confused.) The assumption is that the 30% are issue-driven and will vote on the basis of this single item. It'll stick in their craw. The only way the 60% will vote on the basis of this issue is if it remains prominent at election time.

Kitsune · 03-23-2005, 08:54 PM

Reason: the people are split 60/30 in favor of letting her die.

Are you SERIOUS? The way the news has been portraying it, I would have thought it would have been the other way around!

Happy Monkey · 03-23-2005, 09:45 PM

Here's the article. Gives me hope that there are still some issues that massively slanted coverage can't sway.

Troubleshooter · 03-23-2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Here's the article. Gives me hope that there are still some issues that massively slanted coverage can't sway.

Nice. Real nice...

"One memo circulating in the Senate last week touted how the "pro-life base will be excited by the issue."

Republican leaders strongly disavowed that, but on Friday, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay told the Family Research Council, a leading Christian group, that the Schiavo case was sent by heaven to focus attention on the helpless.

"One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo, to help elevate the visibility of what's going on in America," said DeLay, R-Texas.

He also described the stakes behind the Schiavo showdown as personal.

"This is exactly the issue that's going on in America, the attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others.""

Undertoad · 03-23-2005, 10:10 PM

What a makeup job on the graphics on that story eh?

Tonight there was video of Jeb telling a crowd that there might be evidence she's in a "minimally conscious" state. The lawyer for the parents was on to allege that Terri had "never been examined" (blatantly false, see CT scan above and there have been flat EEGs as well). Ladies and Gentlemen, the "news".

OnyxCougar · 03-24-2005, 10:59 AM

How do you know they aren't reigning in the others?

No one knows what is going on behind closed doors, as much as we'd all like to know. It just doesn't work that way. Never has, probably never will.

And I do have to admit that Tee isn't necessarily wrong in his views. I don't want the freedom of choice of ANY kind to be taken away from anyone. I don't think we should be a "Christian Nation", I think we should be a nation of people with compassion and spirituality, freedom, and morals. Whatever flavor that comes in.

There was a period recently, where it seemed every thread had religious stuff in it, and I think it's because this whole religious "thing" with the government is coming to a head. We need to make sure the people like the guy who said all that crazy shit don't do more damage than they have.

Happy Monkey · 03-24-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

How do you know they aren't reigning in the others?

I want to know that they ARE. I want the closed doors to be opened. I want prominent religous people to publically denounce attempts to shove religion into government. Instead, people like Randall Terry are supported by political and religious leaders because he has faith and therefore is a godly man.

Who are the moderate religious leaders who can oppose Falwell, Dobson, Terry, Robertson, etc?

OnyxCougar · 03-24-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I want to know that they ARE. I want the closed doors to be opened. I want prominent religous people to publically denounce attempts to shove religion into government. Instead, people like Randall Terry are supported by political and religious leaders because he has faith and therefore is a godly man.

Who are the moderate religious leaders who can oppose Falwell, Dobson, Terry, Robertson, etc?

They would be people like TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Zachary Tims, etc. People who really are God-Fearing people, but don't get involved in politics.

I think it would be very difficult to be a Christian and be in politics. Firstly, you're not supposed to lie....

Happy Monkey · 03-24-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

They would be people like TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Zachary Tims, etc. People who really are God-Fearing people, but don't get involved in politics.

I think it would be very difficult to be a Christian and be in politics. Firstly, you're not supposed to lie....

I don't doubt that there are plenty of religious people who don't support Dobson, Falwell et al. I want to know who will oppose them. If a nonreligious person, or even a person who doesn't mention their religion in public, opposes one of the religious demagogues, they get written off as an evil secularist who hates religion. We need a coalition of religious leaders willing to do the hard work of getting the attention of the fickle media, and explaining to everyone that religion and government poison each other. Right now, the demagogues are the public face of religion's role in government, and they have little opposition from other religious leaders.

mrnoodle · 03-24-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I want to know that they ARE. I want the closed doors to be opened. I want prominent religous people to publically denounce attempts to shove religion into government. Instead, people like Randall Terry are supported by political and religious leaders because he has faith and therefore is a godly man.

Who are the moderate religious leaders who can oppose Falwell, Dobson, Terry, Robertson, etc?

This is the problem. If by "moderate religious leaders" you mean "people who have this nice little 'god' hobby, but keep it well under wraps where the rest of us never have to hear about its existence", they don't exist.

it's almost trite to say it now, but the separation of church and state is NOT about removing all vestiges of religion from anyone in public office. It's about preventing the state from telling people how to worship e.g., the Church of England. If someone in public office has moral and/or spiritual beliefs, they are an integral part of that person's decisions, their worldview, their interaction with the rest of humanity. They can't turn it off.

The political power of Falwell, Dobson, Terry, and Robertson combined amounts to zilch. I know fundamentalists, evangelical Christians, Baptists, and other boils on the ass of humanity, but none of us get our marching orders from any of those guys. Dobson has some good parenting tips occasionally, but no one listens to Falwell, I don't know who Terry is, and Pat Robertson is a 3 minute interview on Fox News. You are threatened by these people? Ever think that maybe we're voting our conscience as much as you are?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and "[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States" does NOT mean "there can be no affirmation of religion, mention of religion, or public practice of religion by anyone in any civil service role whatsoever, nor can religion enter the marketplace of ideas where politics or governance is concerned."

Happy Monkey · 03-24-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

This is the problem. If by "moderate religious leaders" you mean "people who have this nice little 'god' hobby, but keep it well under wraps where the rest of us never have to hear about its existence", they don't exist.

Is that a sarcastic way of describing someone who doesn't think that the tenets of their religion should be codified into law? Because that's what I mean by "moderate religious leaders". And I do hold out hope that such people exist.

OnyxCougar · 03-24-2005, 11:22 AM

http://www.societyfortruthandjustice.com/new_page_4.htm

I'd like Radar's opinion on this brief.

OnyxCougar · 03-24-2005, 12:04 PM

The tenets of Christianity/Judaism are already codified into law.

03-23-2005, 09:45 PM	#5
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Here's the article. Gives me hope that there are still some issues that massively slanted coverage can't sway. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-24-2005, 10:59 AM	#8
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	How do you know they aren't reigning in the others? No one knows what is going on behind closed doors, as much as we'd all like to know. It just doesn't work that way. Never has, probably never will. And I do have to admit that Tee isn't necessarily wrong in his views. I don't want the freedom of choice of ANY kind to be taken away from anyone. I don't think we should be a "Christian Nation", I think we should be a nation of people with compassion and spirituality, freedom, and morals. Whatever flavor that comes in. There was a period recently, where it seemed every thread had religious stuff in it, and I think it's because this whole religious "thing" with the government is coming to a head. We need to make sure the people like the guy who said all that crazy shit don't do more damage than they have. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

03-24-2005, 11:22 AM	#14
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	http://www.societyfortruthandjustice.com/new_page_4.htm I'd like Radar's opinion on this brief. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

03-24-2005, 12:04 PM	#15
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	The tenets of Christianity/Judaism are already codified into law. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

03-23-2005, 08:47 PM	#1
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Dead or alive, it really dont matter. Yahoo! Think of the coverage! That is what most seem to think: Politically, this is a disaster for Democrats. Live or die, the Democrats voted for murder. I'm sure we'll be hearing about this for years.

03-23-2005, 08:52 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Once it's over it'll be dropped, immediately, not to be heard of again. Reason: the people are split 60/30 in favor of letting her die. (10% confused.) The assumption is that the 30% are issue-driven and will vote on the basis of this single item. It'll stick in their craw. The only way the 60% will vote on the basis of this issue is if it remains prominent at election time.

03-23-2005, 08:54 PM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Reason: the people are split 60/30 in favor of letting her die. Are you SERIOUS? The way the news has been portraying it, I would have thought it would have been the other way around!

03-23-2005, 10:10 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	What a makeup job on the graphics on that story eh? Tonight there was video of Jeb telling a crowd that there might be evidence she's in a "minimally conscious" state. The lawyer for the parents was on to allege that Terri had "never been examined" (blatantly false, see CT scan above and there have been flat EEGs as well). Ladies and Gentlemen, the "news".

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