Ending God's Tax Exempt Status - Page 13

lumberjim · 08-23-2007, 12:47 PM

your local catholic church collects a tithing, i presume? I expect that they send at least some portion of that up the ladder toward Rome? (maybe I'm wrong about that) .....

ah, I'm being cute here....my real point was that IMO, religious orginizations (religions) exist in the first place because they are profitable. if there was no money/power/security in them, they would be practiced privately in peoples homes only.

dar512 · 08-23-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

your local catholic church collects a tithing, i presume? I expect that they send at least some portion of that up the ladder toward Rome? (maybe I'm wrong about that) .....

ah, I'm being cute here....my real point was that IMO, religious orginizations (religions) exist in the first place because they are profitable. if there was no money/power/security in them, they would be practiced privately in peoples homes only.

A small amount is sent to the diocese to help support the administrative offices there. AFAIK, none is sent to Rome.

I have to disagree with the last point. Certainly a lot of praying gets done in private. But I certainly appreciate the sense of community and bonding that going to church offers. "Wherever two are more are gathered..."

kerosene · 08-23-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

ah, I'm being cute here....my real point was that IMO, religious orginizations (religions) exist in the first place because they are profitable. if there was no money/power/security in them, they would be practiced privately in peoples homes only.

Not all are this way: see church with no name.

(Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.)

elSicomoro · 08-23-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by case

Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.

COTWP has not yet started accepting donations...though maybe we should.

lumberjim · 08-23-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by case

Not all are this way: see church with no name.

(Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.)

Like Quakers. yeah..I get that. these religions tend to be spun off of the originating religion, though, no? the origin of religion is a whole new debate though.

kerosene · 08-23-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Like Quakers. yeah..I get that. these religions tend to be spun off of the originating religion, though, no? the origin of religion is a whole new debate though.

What original religion? Catholic? Jesus? I know...it is a whole new debate, but I want to understand what you mean by that.

lumberjim · 08-23-2007, 01:08 PM

well, who can say, really? It is what it is. I don't go to church, and I sure as hell wouldn't go if I had to pay for it....Yet, I am glad to send my $300 to the cellar every month. ....that's what every one pays, right?

DanaC · 08-23-2007, 01:19 PM

Mmmhmmm...yup....bout that....

dar512 · 08-23-2007, 02:03 PM

Well the OP was saying that churches aren't non-profit. I disagree with that and gave a counter example. That's the only point I intended to make.

I respect people who have other beliefs than mine. I only ask that others respect my beliefs. The anti-Christian anti-church posts on the Cellar over the past year have become venomous.

lumberjim · 08-23-2007, 02:25 PM

the argument was made, however that the excess income (remainder after expenses are met) that is used for expansion of the church is simply profit in sheep's clothing. semantics.

dar512 · 08-23-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

the argument was made, however that the excess income (remainder after expenses are met) that is used for expansion of the church is simply profit in sheep's clothing. semantics.

There is an implicit assumption in there that the church benefits monetarily by having a larger congregation. That may be true in some cases, but I don't believe it is true generally. And it certainly isn't true at the church where I go.

There is a certain economy of scale in that no one family is overly burdened when the church gets to the size we are. However, there is certainly no motivation to be larger for size sake. More families mean more masses which means we need more priests, larger school etc.

lumberjim · 08-23-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

There is an implicit assumption in there that the church benefits monetarily by having a larger congregation. That may be true in some cases, but I don't believe it is true generally. And it certainly isn't true at the church where I go.

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

and rage....you can't seriously believe that a church's ONLY motive for income is growth.... It makes sense that they should grow to servie their parisioners, but they spend their money providing for those in need. Not all religions are evil.

bad apples, for sure....but as a whole? be real.

dar512 · 08-23-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

Well, hey. We're the Catholic church. Everyone already knows who we are, so how much do we really need to spend on PR?

There may be some effort made at the diocese level, but we don't send out door ringers. We try to make people feel welcome when they visit and there's a certain level of effort made to keep teens in the flock. But that's about it.

Not that I'm saying the Catholic church is perfect. Look how Syc got treated in StL.

08-23-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

and rage....you can't seriously believe that a church's ONLY motive for income is growth.... It makes sense that they should grow to servie their parisioners, but they spend their money providing for those in need. Not all religions are evil.

bad apples, for sure....but as a whole? be real.

I did not say that.
I said they do not qualify as a charity based on the fact that their funds are spent on growth alone or to a VAST majority.
I don't believe in evil.

Clodfobble · 08-23-2007, 02:29 PM

Except for the fact that those semantics also apply to other nonprofit organizations who seek to grow.

08-23-2007, 12:47 PM	#1
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	your local catholic church collects a tithing, i presume? I expect that they send at least some portion of that up the ladder toward Rome? (maybe I'm wrong about that) ..... ah, I'm being cute here....my real point was that IMO, religious orginizations (religions) exist in the first place because they are profitable. if there was no money/power/security in them, they would be practiced privately in peoples homes only. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan Last edited by lumberjim; 08-23-2007 at 12:51 PM. Reason: sp

08-23-2007, 01:08 PM	#7
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	well, who can say, really? It is what it is. I don't go to church, and I sure as hell wouldn't go if I had to pay for it....Yet, I am glad to send my $300 to the cellar every month. ....that's what every one pays, right? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

08-23-2007, 02:03 PM	#9
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	Well the OP was saying that churches aren't non-profit. I disagree with that and gave a counter example. That's the only point I intended to make. I respect people who have other beliefs than mine. I only ask that others respect my beliefs. The anti-Christian anti-church posts on the Cellar over the past year have become venomous. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

08-23-2007, 02:25 PM	#10
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	the argument was made, however that the excess income (remainder after expenses are met) that is used for expansion of the church is simply profit in sheep's clothing. semantics. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

08-23-2007, 01:19 PM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Mmmhmmm...yup....bout that....

08-23-2007, 02:29 PM	#15
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Except for the fact that those semantics also apply to other nonprofit organizations who seek to grow.

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