Anonymous Mom, No Dads, + 14 - Page 13

piercehawkeye45 · 03-02-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Also don't forget the fact that smart chicks tend to avoid the misogynistic jerks, leaving only the stupid chicks to hang around them... which reinforces their notion that all women are stupid.

I came off wrong there, I meant to add a second part and forgot.

They observe a high school setting in a very biased manner where they will ignore anything that goes against their beliefs and heavily emphasis what goes with them. For example, the girl that makes really stupid comments will somehow represent all women, the annoying "men should all die" extremists somehow represent all feminists, etc.

Your point works too.

Aliantha · 03-01-2009, 05:14 PM

Except Dana of course. She's not a stupid chick...

Clodfobble · 03-01-2009, 05:21 PM

Sure, but she wasn't letting them get to know her on a personal basis, she was mostly just witnessing their horrific behavior. No one really believes anyone they meet on the internet is real.

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Sure, but she wasn't letting them get to know her on a personal basis, she was mostly just witnessing their horrific behavior. No one really believes anyone they meet on the internet is real.

What? You aren't real?

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 09:38 PM

On a related topic, in TIME magazine last month there was an article on stem cell research. One of the main researchers in this field is Dr. Douglas Melton.

"When (Melton's) class discussed the morality of embryonic-stem-cell research, Melton invited Richard Doerflinger of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops to present arguments against the field. Melton asked Doerflinger if he considered a day-old embryo and a 6-year-old to be moral equivalents; when Doerflinger responded yes, Melton countered by asking why society accepts the freezing of embryos but not the freezing of 6-year-olds."

I thought that was BRILLIANT! You can read the article here: http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...874717,00.html

And about the morality of the freezing of embryos...
"...2. Is there ever a good reason to freeze an embryo? Some who are pro-life blindly accept every aspect of in vitro fertilization (IVF). In truth, some practices in the process of IVF end the lives of babies. The IVF process involves fertilizing eggs and then implanting a specific number of those eggs. However, (1) much of the time there are a number of fertilized eggs (embryos) that are unused and are consequently discarded, and/or (2) the eggs not used are frozen. The problem with the first issue is obvious. Discarding embryos is immoral. However, the problem with the second issue is more complicated. It is true that embryos can survive freezing, but not indefinitely. So parents who have decided to go down the IVF road must have those frozen embryos implanted before they die. But even then, the survival rate when unfreezing embryos is only 50% percent. I don’t like those odds, even when faced with the prospect of not having my own children. What you are saying by freezing embryos is that your need for a child trumps the good possibility that you will inadvertently end the lives of some babies..."

http://theologyamplified.blogspot.co...-anything.html

Aliantha · 03-01-2009, 05:24 PM

I believe most of the people I meet on the internet are real.

Even the arseholes...in fact, probably more of the arseholes. lol Some of the people who're nice all the time make me suspicious!

binky · 03-02-2009, 03:57 PM

Okay I have a tacky octo mom joke.

binky · 03-02-2009, 03:58 PM

There's a new Denny's breakfast called the octo slam- eight eggs, no sausage, and the guy at the next table pays for it :p

Aliantha · 03-02-2009, 09:02 PM

Some people are offended by the thought of contraception.

That doesn't make their stance right...or even just.

It's a moral issue, and those sorts of things are always going to cause friction.

The problem with morals is that we've all got a different idea of what is moral, and we know that's due to many different things.

From what I've read and heard, this woman felt it was morally wrong not to give those embryo's a chance for life. While I disagree with her stance, I can understand how a person could feel that way if that was part of her moral code.

Aliantha · 03-02-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Melton countered by asking why society accepts the freezing of embryos but not the freezing of 6-year-olds

Life can't be sustained after a 6 year old has been frozen. That's why it's immoral to freeze 6 year olds, as opposed to embryos where the ultimate goal is to create a sustainable life.

As to the lifespan of embryos, well, I guess everything has a shelf life. Even fully mature adults have shelf lives.

I'm trying to understand your point here sugar. Are you against IVF entirely or are you cherry picking the parts of it you don't like?

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 10:10 PM

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the prolife movement when it comes to stuff like this. So many of them are against science, and talk about God's will, well, if you can't conceive, using IVF isn't God's will, it's science. And when they use science to have kids, it's a "miracle" when they have multiple births. No, it's science. Not a miracle.

Personally, I think people should adopt if they can't have children. But, since some people are so attached to the idea of having their own kids, even when there is probably a reason why they shouldn't (or they would be able to conceive), I'm not really opposed to IVF, but I believe there needs to be stricter laws about it. If you already have kids, just accept that you can't more. And there are too many instances of people having multiple births of 4 or more. Isn't there a way to control that better, so they only have 1 or 2? I'm concerned about it.

Pie · 03-02-2009, 09:48 PM

Nah, she's saying it's silly to co-rank embryos and 6-year-olds. One is a person; the other is a clump of cells that may (someday) become a person.

Aliantha · 03-02-2009, 10:13 PM

My husband and I had started considering IVF after two years of trying to get pregnant.

I already have two children.

Would it have been wrong for us to do so?

sugarpop · 03-02-2009, 10:17 PM

It isn't a question of right or wrong. It isn't that black and white. I don't want to judge people who would use the procedure responsibly.

Let me counter by asking you a question. Have you considered adoption? Why do feel you need to have more than 2 kids?

Aliantha · 03-02-2009, 10:20 PM

Because my children are from a former relationship, and my husband has no children of his own other than the bond he's formed with my two sons.

We would have considered adoption if we'd failed at IVF. Adoption is no simple thing here though. We could wait many many years for a child, and as we're both in our mid 30's we'd prefer not to wait that long.

03-01-2009, 05:14 PM	#2
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Except Dana of course. She's not a stupid chick... __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-01-2009, 05:21 PM	#3
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Sure, but she wasn't letting them get to know her on a personal basis, she was mostly just witnessing their horrific behavior. No one really believes anyone they meet on the internet is real. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

03-01-2009, 05:24 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I believe most of the people I meet on the internet are real. Even the arseholes...in fact, probably more of the arseholes. lol Some of the people who're nice all the time make me suspicious! __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-02-2009, 03:57 PM	#7
binky all hollowed out Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Posts: 982	Okay I have a tacky octo mom joke. __________________ The meanest Mom EVER!!!!

03-02-2009, 03:58 PM	#8
binky all hollowed out Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Posts: 982	There's a new Denny's breakfast called the octo slam- eight eggs, no sausage, and the guy at the next table pays for it :p __________________ The meanest Mom EVER!!!!

03-02-2009, 09:38 PM	#5
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	On a related topic, in TIME magazine last month there was an article on stem cell research. One of the main researchers in this field is Dr. Douglas Melton. "When (Melton's) class discussed the morality of embryonic-stem-cell research, Melton invited Richard Doerflinger of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops to present arguments against the field. Melton asked Doerflinger if he considered a day-old embryo and a 6-year-old to be moral equivalents; when Doerflinger responded yes, Melton countered by asking why society accepts the freezing of embryos but not the freezing of 6-year-olds." I thought that was BRILLIANT! You can read the article here: http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...874717,00.html And about the morality of the freezing of embryos... "...2. Is there ever a good reason to freeze an embryo? Some who are pro-life blindly accept every aspect of in vitro fertilization (IVF). In truth, some practices in the process of IVF end the lives of babies. The IVF process involves fertilizing eggs and then implanting a specific number of those eggs. However, (1) much of the time there are a number of fertilized eggs (embryos) that are unused and are consequently discarded, and/or (2) the eggs not used are frozen. The problem with the first issue is obvious. Discarding embryos is immoral. However, the problem with the second issue is more complicated. It is true that embryos can survive freezing, but not indefinitely. So parents who have decided to go down the IVF road must have those frozen embryos implanted before they die. But even then, the survival rate when unfreezing embryos is only 50% percent. I don’t like those odds, even when faced with the prospect of not having my own children. What you are saying by freezing embryos is that your need for a child trumps the good possibility that you will inadvertently end the lives of some babies..." http://theologyamplified.blogspot.co...-anything.html

03-02-2009, 09:02 PM	#9
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Some people are offended by the thought of contraception. That doesn't make their stance right...or even just. It's a moral issue, and those sorts of things are always going to cause friction. The problem with morals is that we've all got a different idea of what is moral, and we know that's due to many different things. From what I've read and heard, this woman felt it was morally wrong not to give those embryo's a chance for life. While I disagree with her stance, I can understand how a person could feel that way if that was part of her moral code. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-02-2009, 10:10 PM	#11
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the prolife movement when it comes to stuff like this. So many of them are against science, and talk about God's will, well, if you can't conceive, using IVF isn't God's will, it's science. And when they use science to have kids, it's a "miracle" when they have multiple births. No, it's science. Not a miracle. Personally, I think people should adopt if they can't have children. But, since some people are so attached to the idea of having their own kids, even when there is probably a reason why they shouldn't (or they would be able to conceive), I'm not really opposed to IVF, but I believe there needs to be stricter laws about it. If you already have kids, just accept that you can't more. And there are too many instances of people having multiple births of 4 or more. Isn't there a way to control that better, so they only have 1 or 2? I'm concerned about it.

03-02-2009, 09:48 PM	#12
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Nah, she's saying it's silly to co-rank embryos and 6-year-olds. One is a person; the other is a clump of cells that may (someday) become a person. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

03-02-2009, 10:13 PM	#13
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	My husband and I had started considering IVF after two years of trying to get pregnant. I already have two children. Would it have been wrong for us to do so? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-02-2009, 10:17 PM	#14
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	It isn't a question of right or wrong. It isn't that black and white. I don't want to judge people who would use the procedure responsibly. Let me counter by asking you a question. Have you considered adoption? Why do feel you need to have more than 2 kids?

03-02-2009, 10:20 PM	#15
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Because my children are from a former relationship, and my husband has no children of his own other than the bond he's formed with my two sons. We would have considered adoption if we'd failed at IVF. Adoption is no simple thing here though. We could wait many many years for a child, and as we're both in our mid 30's we'd prefer not to wait that long. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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