taxation

[BigV]

The point remains the majority of people do not pay Federal Income tax

in 2009.

I concede the point, mercy, and I devoutly wish I could go back to 2009 and change things. And if I couldn't change things, perhaps I could bring you back to 2011 with me. You're stuck. You're stuck on a point that is correct and every time you say it, I agree with it. No matter how irrelevant it is to our situation now, I will still agree with you. You're right.

[classicman]

a tax rate in the mid-20s and no loopholes. Zero,” he tells Stahl. “The U.S. has the most antiquated tax system.

Shoot me now, cuz I agree with him on this ^^^.

[classicman]

and from the link within your link ...

"The president has made clear that he believes we need to reform our corporate tax system," White House spokesman Jay Carney said on Thursday. "He believes that we can lower our corporate tax rate without diminishing revenues if we go after a lot of loopholes that exist, a lot of the complexity."

I again agree. Now who is stopping this from happening?

[classicman]

Well ... hmm ... then how do we know they didn't pay any this time?

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by classicman

Well ... hmm ... then how do we know they didn't pay any this time?

I guess we don't know, since BigV seems to be correct in his assertion that these companies don't make the amount of taxes they actually pay public. Have to wait for the next Government Accountability Office study.

However, I'd hazard a guess that if a company found enough legal loopholes to completely avoid paying taxes altogether, that company would continue to use the same techniques year after year.

[TheMercenary]

This pretty much sums it up... Not safe for those with easily brused egos and sensitive ears.... Obama and Congress needs to play this on a wide screen.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

This pretty much sums it up... Not safe for those with easily brused egos and sensitive ears.... Obama and Congress needs to play this on a wide screen.

What a yawn.

He says some words that are currently in the news, but not with a great deal of understanding. Let's go over his "summing up".

14.6 trillion dollars--my credit cards would be cut off.

Sure, sure, but this is the first unintentionally comic comparison about the country and an individual. Our credit is NOT cut off, and S&P's downgrading notwithstanding, our credit with everyone else on the planet is still the best. They *keep* lending us money. So, this is a comparison FAIL.

***

All I'm asking is to balance the budget (to the government, the United States government), balance the checkbook like every American. 14.6 trillion before you realized you were overdrawn?

A better understanding of how the budget got into this shape if he'd expanded his description of the "American" that balances the checkbook to include his parents and his parent's parents. Especially their promises to pay obligations that will last past the time they earned money to pay, and into the time HE was earning money. Furthermore, he should talk about some expenses that were recorded but were never budgeted for, in keeping with his rant about budgeting. Some of these expenses could be like that jerkass kid that was photographed torching a cop car in Vancouver. The expenses for rioting were ... noted but that kid never expected to pay for the car. Or the shops on the block. Or the medical expenses of everyone that was hurt in the melee. That kid knew he was doing things that were super expensive, but he just figured he'd add it to his tab. YouTube guy would be making a better comparison if he included people who took actions like this in his imaginary American family.

***

Not Republican, not Democrat, just BALANCE THE FUCKING BUDGET

Well, this is more oversimplification to the point of ignorance. It would be nice if it could be done **POOF** without R or D influences, but that just isn't the case. He can't wish it into the cornfield and wasting one breath imagining it could be the case is ridiculous. His example would be better if he had his imaginary American family create their budget by unanimous consent, and that the people in the family got along like cats and dogs. His comparison is just fucking faulty. Now... he has LOTS of company, people who won't or can't stretch their understanding to encompass more of the reality of our debt and deficit situation than just an angry soundbite or two. Lots of folks just stop there. Like screaming at the little yellow sunshiny icon in the weather app on your iPhone while you stand in the rain at the bus stop. Cathartic, but otherwise pointless, and, you look like a fool.

***

China.

Sweet.

How is it we owe China? How can I tell my daughter that capitalism is better than communism?

Here's another misunderstanding but much less egregious. China does have a communist government, but they have a stunning grasp of capitalism. Stunning? More like choking. Imagining that China, the political communists can NOT be China the market capitalists is simply mistaken. An easy mistake to make if you just spend your time being informed by shallow four color maps that paint China red and headlines but not articles. Another point, why would we borrow from China? Why not? We "borrow" by issuing Treasury Bonds. Anyone can buy them, including China. A slightly better question is why would China buy our bonds in the first place. That has good answers too, they wanted as close to a guaranteed return as is available and they have oceans of money that needed to be invested. They invested elsewhere too, but lots of it went into T-Bills.

***

Look, you got a federal loan? Don't pay it. You don't pay, I don't pay.

Stupid twice.

First stupid. The Federal government isn't not paying ANYONE. So, fail.

Second stupid. Even if the Feds were reneging on some obligations because of a deficit, not paying the Feds, while having a certain symmetry, would be making the problem worse, not better. I get the idea YouTube guy wants the problem solved, but paying less on a loan the government made to him is not the way to balance the budget, B.

***

The next two are really close together.

The government's credit score right now has to be 350, your whole life is a 350.

Wrong. Not just on the numeric assessment, which, is in fact, wrong (we're rated AAA and AAA and AA+.) Not only is that the opposite of "350" from Experian, et al, it's as good as it gets. But it's also wrong in the marketplace. Honestly, this is a very, very good time to be borrowing money. Did you see the rate on TEN YEAR T BILLS? 1.75 % this week. That is very cheap money. I'd be borrowing all I could get my hands on. But it's not about me, my point is that the world thinks our credit is so "bad" that they charge us a premium rate of 1.75 %, locked in for ten fucking years. Show of hands. Who here can get money that cheaply? Anybody got better than a "350"? Yeah, I thought so.

***

"President Obama, personal to you. All the black people was proud. We got a black President. You actin like one right now, B. Pay your fuckin bills on time."

FUCK. YOU. Simple motherfucker.

***

For an encore, I have give props for speaking his mind. But if he has a friend who makes $500,000 a month, why didn't he learn that instead. Coulda paid the light bill, B.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

FUCK. YOU. Simple motherfucker.

[ZenGum]

This whole argument about corporations shifting to other countries for lower tax rates is another illustration of the fact that global corporations have more power than national governments.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

global corporations have more power than national governments.

Not if the countries work together, I think that is part of the issue. Those in power seem to trying to solve these issues independently, when global solutions are needed.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Not if the countries work together, I think that is part of the issue. Those in power seem to trying to solve these issues independently, when global solutions are needed.

A country like Ireland has no incentive to work with rich countries when they are in the shit and everyone else is pretty much doing better than them. Global Kumabya isn't going to happen. One of the many truths of this world is you do what is right for your country First.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by BigV

Ireland, huh?

So, all these companies that fled to Ireland, how'd that work out for Ireland?

Originally Posted by classicman

Not if the countries work together, I think that is part of the issue. Those in power seem to trying to solve these issues independently, when global solutions are needed.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

A country like Ireland has no incentive to work with rich countries when they are in the shit and everyone else is pretty much doing better than them. Global Kumabya isn't going to happen. One of the many truths of this world is you do what is right for your country First.

I'll take this as my answer. It produced shit for Ireland.

Why would I want to follow them into the shitter? I don't. You don't. So, let's don't.

[ZenGum]

Indeed, I had started out on a rant/metaphor about how this was like the early days of unionism. I deleted it because the metaphor didn't really hold up.

Could you really see all the countries of the world agreeing to set corporate tax at a certain minimum? And then keeping this agreement? Without looking for some sneaky loophole to get their own (short term) advantage?

Corporations play governments off against each other all the time. Tax rates and breaks, labour laws, environmental laws, etc etc. are all under pressure.

Despite the obvious risks, an effective world government would seem to be the only solution. Only question is, how long 'til the corporate interests buy control of that as well?

[DanaC]

Hard enough to get individuals within a country to act together...

[classicman]

Oh, There is no way that its gonna work. Not in our lifetimes anyway.