09-19-2007, 01:24 PM | #226 |
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Turn your business over to your child? Sell it? Work for free, because you love the job and want to keep your people employed? Work and give the money to charity? Think outside the box, LJ.
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09-19-2007, 02:06 PM | #227 |
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Alright. The secret is, the people he hires are in the same marketplace that the peas are. As much as we hate to think this is true, it's simply fact.
These decisions are not really made by the CEO. As much as the CEO wants to charge $5 per can - because he'll make $4.55 per can - there is no grocer in the world charging that. As much as he wants to sell the cans for 30 cents - because he'll sell more - the decision is not up to him, because at that price point it actually costs the grocer 15 cents per can. He can run it as a special to show off a low price... but only for a while. The owner has the ability to take a smaller chunk. But so does every single other owner, and so the owner faces the same problem in pricing himself as his faces in pricing the peas. He especially faces it when pricing labor. In the grocery business, labor costs are the bulk of the costs, aside from the price of goods sold. So as much as he wants to, if he pays $20/hour for checkers, he will go out of business because he won't have any money left. If he chooses to give smaller salaries to management, he'll get worse managers because his competition will get the good managers. His managers will leave to work for the competition. If he chooses to bring in inferior goods to take a bigger chunk per item sold, he'll lose business to quality. One grocer can't change this system. All 100 grocers in the area might be able to - until some other chain comes to the area and runs it back. All 10,000 grocers in the country may be able to - until an alternative to grocers comes around. If there is a big gap between prices and cost of goods sold, you can bet that it will. Because the business has a built-in profit margin in the single digits, smaller than the average businesses out there. The rules of the market are clearly defined. You can say that the market for CEOs is confused, that the CEOs make too much because boards don't understand that more people can do that job than the 1000 people vying for Fortune 500 company CEO positions. The boards don't agree with you. You can say that the market for business owners is confused because too many owners take too much out of their businesses. But starting most businesses, especially those with employees, requires a buy-in of six figures and a rather complete understanding of the market and the profession. You can say, well people should be better owners, and on that we agree. But that problem doesn't lie in the rather forced economic revisionism you seem to espouse. Force labor and wage changes and you will just find the same owners making stupider decisions. |
09-19-2007, 06:46 PM | #228 | |
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09-19-2007, 07:05 PM | #229 |
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spex, you are intellectually dishonest. arguing with you is pointless. you are slipperier than a greased politician.
the concept of someone 'stopping the accumulation of their wealth' is asinine. you might as well ask Lions to eat grass. Communism doesnt work. Eventually the entitled's needs overwhelm the ability of the enabled to provide for it, and it crashes. Survival of the fittest works...in nature and in business.
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09-19-2007, 07:22 PM | #230 | |||
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Who said anything about survival of the fittest? I prefer Darwin's philosophy - survival of the species.
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09-19-2007, 07:27 PM | #231 | |
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09-19-2007, 07:36 PM | #232 | |
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yes...you are. you argue to win an argument, slipping this way and that, disregarding points that crush your argument just so you can continue to argue until you finally wear the adversary down in frustration and find some way to claim that 'you won'
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it's not a great idea because it will never happen...Logistically, the person is either 1.continuing in business and giving his money away, or 2. closing up shop, or 3.selling it to someone else and 1. communism 2. causing the loss of employment and income for all those below him/her 3. accumuating more wealth thru the profit of the sale. i think you are. i did. just a few minutes ago. and....you're a communist.
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09-19-2007, 08:16 PM | #233 |
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In #181, I gave an illustration to justify my point that if a CEO or owner accepts less, poverty and welfare can be reduced. How is that substantially different than what I just said?
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09-19-2007, 09:08 PM | #234 | |
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This is worse than the time I got stuck defending my Plane on a Treadmill position; which I think finally settled on:
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09-19-2007, 10:23 PM | #235 | |
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...that "intellectually dishonest" label applies here as well. |
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09-20-2007, 02:54 AM | #236 |
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And one of the more visible economic phenomena of communism is poorer and stupider business decisions anyway. Just about every good or service in the Soviet Union is on record as having had that happen.
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09-20-2007, 07:47 AM | #237 |
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You guys need to read up on Communism. I'm saying that people who have enough should voluntarily stop accumulating more. Did I say the government should be involved?
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09-20-2007, 08:28 AM | #238 | |||||||||||||
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I’ve been pretty consistent throughout. I’ll be more specific and change that to “have enough” Quote:
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Once they have enough. Quote:
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I threw out a bunch of options. Are you trying to say that my theory is incorrect because you think there’s an inconsistency between “CEO changing the pay structure” and “everyone accepting less” (which would, in fact, be a change in pay structure – think union give-backs)???? Sounds like a straw man argument.
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09-20-2007, 09:25 AM | #239 | |
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What I was trying to walk you through was why the CEO can't necessarily change the structure the way you posted in #181, just like he can't change the price of a can of peas, because market forces regulate everything; And by the way, if you want to go anecdotal, I'm speaking as a former business owner whose business failed quickly, largely because I paid too highly for people; It would have done me more good, and the world more good, if I'd figured out how to build my business without overpaying them; And it would have been better for them not to have temporarily high-paying employment followed by sudden failure; Because I could only pay those people for about a year before I experienced total business collapse and utter personal financial ruin. |
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09-20-2007, 09:41 AM | #240 | |
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I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune.
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