Does Anyone feel like Bailing

[tw]

Using economic stimulus plans (throwing money at a problem) simply encouraged America to play money games rather than innovate. Economics will again take revenge. Intel announced a $1billion reduction of sales in the 4th quarter.

With a market reduction of 40%, I had assumed the market had finally found a new, lower, and realistic value for America. A reduction directly traceable to George Jr's "deficits don't matter" and "welfare to the rich" (ie the secret changing of tax laws at the start of October).

I may have been too optimistic. Numbers (even in home prices) suggested that America (and your pensions) should drop as much as 40%. Based upon this Intel revelation and what may happen tomorrow (Thursday), America's net worth value may drop again. Show me where the real problems have been addressed?

Welcome to what happens when your government does nothing to avert Enron accounting and to throw money at problems. Even GM has no restructuring plans for good reason. GM is queuing up early for even more government welfare rather than fire Rick Wagoner and use 70 horsepower per liter engines.

Tomorrow, the stock market will again ask, "How much is America really worth?" now that so many Americans are MBAs rather than people who do something productive and innovative.

I had hoped the market found a bottom. Since we have not done anything to attack problems - ie Enron style accounting - and while even Cisco and Intel sales have tanked - we will see tomorrow what happens when "Deficits don't matter".

Of course, Palin could have saved us - as if George Jr's praying for guidance averted all this. Tomorrow, we will ask how much of America's wealth disappeared before government starting handing out billions like it was candy. Has America been only 40% overvalued - or were spreadsheet lies even more egregious?

Soon to line up for free government money - boat building companies. Clearly we must save jobs.

[TheMercenary]

First the Democrats in Congress Bail out the big corps, now they are going to bail out the Automakers, and the DNC has the balls to ask for people to send them money to reduce their debt from the election. Screw them.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

First the Democrats in Congress Bail out the big corps, now they are going to bail out the Automakers,

This was Paulson's plan to save America. Now that TARP and $700billion has not solved anything, he is responding to Democratic calls (more stupidity) to bail out companies without any requirements to fix their problems. Did no one learn from 1979 Chrysler and 1981 Ford? Even NPR tonight discussed the severe medicine that saved those companies. Does everyone still worship myths from the MBA schools?

"Ford to NYC: Drop Dead" - a headline on the NY Post that actually saved NYC. Why is this poster who some called a liberal, instead, such a hardass and more conservative than even our wacko conservatives? Maybe there wacko liberals and conservatives - and then others who deal in reality?

What has become apparent: Paulson's (a George Jr man) only plan was ill conceived (in a three page memo), was only supposed to be a temporary solution, and remains the only plan on the table. Why? He and Bernanke have no idea what to do. That realization is starting to scare the many and the markets.

This sudden revelation on Wall Street combined with Intel's hours old announcement may create but another massive sell off.

Oh. Last of the banks given special exemption (deregulation) by George Jr on equity requirements - both Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs - may need to concede. Neither appear to be solvent enough to become a commerical bank. That would mean all five investment banks, provided George Jr liberation from equity requirements, will disappear.

Just another example of economics taking revenge on a nation who let their leaders play money games - who said "deficits don't matter". As Warren Buffet said, the only [real] tax cut is one that cuts spending. We have yet to pay for that $1trillion war. And so our illustrious leaders spend more money than any Democrat ever did AND will now use more debts to pay for that bailout. The rooster has come home to ... shit? George Jr's legacy.

Notice another example promoted by MBAs. Drill, Drill, Drill. Notice that solution also completely ignored the problem. Welcome to Paulson's latest plan. It's getting scary again.

If only Palin replaced Cheney. Then all this would go away.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

First the Democrats in Congress Bail out the big corps

Fuck you and your fucking revisionist history. I can appreciate an honest difference in opinions about how to best proceed to make this country better, but your blatant lies about this recent history are unforgivable.

The $700 billion dollar bailout was a bipartisan plan devised primarily by Bush through his appointee Paulson and modified by Congress to gain the votes needed to pass it. Bush gave a speech begging Congress to support the revised plan. And said he was "very disappointed" when they didn't at first. The Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate passed it together, and Bush quickly signed it into law the same day. You may hate the plan, but to say it is a Democrat only plan is a complete rewrite of history. You are a liar. Stop being one.
-----------------

For the record, Merc. Here's the time line:

September 29, 2008: The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (H.R.3997) was introduced. This bill was a revision of the Bush/Paulson plan. In an early morning White House address, Bush urged lawmakers to pass this revised plan into law.* Just before the vote, Pelosi made some partisan comments that some Republicans didn't like.* The bill was defeated.* The Republicans may not have had the votes anyway. * As a result of the defeat, the DJIA dropped 777 points that day. White House spokesman said that Bush was "very disappointed."*


October 1, 2008: The Senate approved a revised measure, H.R.1424. 34 Republicans and 39 Democrats voted for it.

October 3, 2008: The House approved H.R. 1424 on October 3, 2008. 91 Republicans and 171 Democrats voted for it. President Bush, a Republican, quickly signed it into law the same day.*

[Shawnee123]

*applause*

[classicman]

I love this one. (see bold)

In October, I announced the creation of the Lt. Governor's Foreclosure Prevention Task Force to help Delaware homeowners deal with the growing foreclosure crisis in the state. ... helping as many Delawareans as possible keep their homes.

First, as outlined in the task force's Interim Report, we have secured almost $700,000 in additional funding for the DEMAP program, which helps homeowners who are facing foreclosure through no fault of their own.

Foreclosure Prevention website

Through no fault of their own. Like a truck came outta nowhere while they were sitting on the couch eating popcorn and crashed into
their den?

[Pico and ME]

Why is it seen as alright to rescue big corporations and not everyday working people? Are their sins more forgivable or what?

[classicman]

Who said it was or wasn't?

[Pico and ME]

Classic, didn't these banks and financial companies get into trouble 'through no fault of their own, too?

[classicman]

Not in my opinion, NOT AT ALL.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Not in my opinion, NOT AT ALL.

Two posts and nothing said.

1) Why is it seen as alright to rescue big corporations and not everyday working people?

2) Why did these banks and financial companies get into trouble 'through no fault of their own, too?

A major oppurtunity exists. Classicman would answer Pico and Me with a reply that does not waste bandwidth. There it is, classicman. His two questions. You consumed bandwidth with cheap shots. Now, what is your answer - which means you also post supporting facts. An answer with supporting facts - please fill us with your wisdom.

[Pico and ME]

Classic, Im still confused...which questions were asked of me?

[classicman]

Post #287 - sorry singular

[Pico and ME]

Oh, you mean your question for my question? Thats me being somewhat rhetorical. You seem to like jumping on the 'slam the little guy for his financial indiscretions' bandwagon, which just brought my question to mind. I responded to your question with post #288. Do you really need me to clarify that it wasn't you who 'said it'?

I have a major issue with giving these banks this corporate welfare and then not giving anything to the people on the front lines whose lives are more seriously affected by this mess. Not giving them help because it was 'their fault and bad decision making' when we are doing it for corporations is just plain sinister.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Why is it seen as alright to rescue big corporations and not everyday working people? Are their sins more forgivable or what?

Originally Posted by classicman

Who said it was or wasn't?

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Classic, didn't these banks and financial companies get into trouble 'through no fault of their own, too?

Originally Posted by classicman

Not in my opinion, NOT AT ALL.

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

I have a major issue with giving these banks this corporate welfare and then not giving anything to the people on the front lines whose lives are more seriously affected by this mess. Not giving them help because it was 'their fault and bad decision making' when we are doing it for corporations is just plain sinister.

I agree with that. I never said anything to the contrary. It still sucks that those who are paying their mortgages and their taxes have to bail ANYONE out.
I think you took my quote out of context. I believe the lenders are at fault. I believe the politicians that passed the laws which forced lenders to offer loans to people who really didn't qualify are at fault and I think that the people who took out loans that they knew or should have known they couldn't afford are both at fault.