"She", not "he", guys

[sexobon]

In academia, perhaps. In the real world, women may still make less money for doing the same jobs as men and encounter the glass ceiling as a result of that perception. That's in first world countries, in the second world they can be much worse off. These circumstances can affect their development differently. Do those who are transgendered, after their formative years, ever realize the same outlook?

[DanaC]

Ah, I see. I'd misunderstood your post :P

[sexobon]

Perhaps I could do better with an analogy. When people beyond their formative years study a foreign language, at first they translate everything (their own thoughts and what others are saying) in their heads. Eventually, they can become accustomed enough to "think" in the foreign language and not have to translate in their heads anymore. Some people have a greater; or, lesser aptitude than others to learn another language which can be measured with a battery of tests.

Can people learn to think entirely like their mental gender for their culture after being raised/indoctrinated in their physical gender; or, is that not possible unlike learning to think in another language? If they can, can their aptitude be measured?

[Pico and ME]

I would think maybe that is why they want the physical change...because they already 'think' in that gender's language. Their struggle is in fighting the indocrination.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

I would think maybe that is why they want the physical change...because they already 'think' in that gender's language. Their struggle is in fighting the indocrination.

That's true in part; however, part of them has already been indoctrinated, during their formative years, into thinking like their physical gender and that's the part I'm referring to.

[Sundae]

Last night I dreamt in Chinese.
Eating Yankee shredded wheat

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by Sundae

Last night I dreamt in Chinese.
Eating Yankee shredded wheat

Stop snacking on spicy foods right before bed. That'll stop the weird dreams!

[Razzmatazz13]

Maybe I'm being a bit slow, but what sort of things are you referring to them thinking in terms of "male" or "female" mindsets? I understand what you're saying in an abstract sort of way... men and women are raised/treated differently, I'm just not really understanding how you'd know you were thinking in a completely "female" capacity after being raised as a male?

So.. basically... how would you know that your outlook/mental whatever was entirely transformed into the "female" mindset or not? (or vice versa...)

[Razzmatazz13]

Sort of like if you saw a completely different set of colors than everyone, but you were raised in the same kindgergarten. Purple would be purple to you, even if your eyes saw orange instead. The color would be different but you wouldn't be able to tell, having never seen through someone else's eyeballs.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Razzmatazz13

... So.. basically... how would you know that your outlook/mental whatever was entirely transformed into the "female" mindset or not? (or vice versa...)

Originally Posted by Razzmatazz13

... The color would be different but you wouldn't be able to tell, having never seen through someone else's eyeballs.

Others would be able to tell. To continue my analogy, some people can learn another language and its culture well enough to pass as a native while others cannot. Are transgendered peoples' ability to ever pass through society without that being noticed obscured?

[Razzmatazz13]

Ok Thanks for the clarification on your question.

[DanaC]

I think the point made in that article though, is that prisoners with other medical or pyschological needs are assisted. At taxpayers expense. So why distinguish between them and this guy, unless one is making a judgement as to which condition/problem is recognisable to us and which is frivolous.

There is a broad tendency within society to see something like this as frivolous or unnecessary.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I think the point made in that article though, is that prisoners with other medical or pyschological needs are assisted. At taxpayers expense. So why distinguish between them and this guy, unless one is making a judgement as to which condition/problem is recognisable to us and which is frivolous.

I'm not against "needs" being addressed, but I'll bet presented with the treatment given all prisoners, I'd probably take the same position on many of them. Don't forget this is job security for the docs and shrinks that work for the prison system.

There is a broad tendency within society to see something like this as frivolous or unnecessary.

Yes, with good reason.

Pam said:

GRS/SRS is NOT cosmetic surgery in the case of a transsexual, it is corrective.

OK, so take a guy that is born with one leg two inches shorter than the other. That's going to cause a serious hitch in his git-along, and sure to twist his head from childhood teasing to stares and whispers as an adult. He could get it corrected but doesn't, most likely from lack of funds. Now he murders his wife and gets sent to prison, suddenly the taxpayer is on the hook for the procedure? NO, if it's not necessary before he goes to prison, it's not necessary while he's in. It's not an emergency like an appendicitis, that makes it elective as far as I'm concerned.

See, capital punishment would have solved this problem.

[henry quirk]

...with this -- "Fine, when he gets out he can do, and be, whatever he wants, I couldn't give a shit less." -- some one is liable to call you 'cunt' or 'bully'...

##

"did you just tell me to shut up?"

Pretty much, yeah.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

...with this -- "Fine, when he gets out he can do, and be, whatever he wants, I couldn't give a shit less." -- some one is liable to call you 'cunt' or 'bully'...

##

"did you just tell me to shut up?"

Pretty much, yeah.

It didn't work.