Terri Schiavo's Parents Seek Divorce on Her Behalf - Page 18

Griff · 03-31-2005, 08:55 AM

Well she's dead now so...

vsp · 03-31-2005, 08:56 AM

Donning Kevlar now.

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Well she's dead now so...

...so the autopsy will verify my thinking on the matter.

Griff · 03-31-2005, 09:31 AM

I don't know if this guy is in the know, but wouldn't more brain imaging while she was alive have been more useful?

In order to begin to disprove my conviction that Terri suffered during her forced starvation her doctors would have had to perform an (1) EEG (electroencephalogram) showing cortical brainwave activity (2) PET (Positron Emission Tomography) Scan to show a reduction in cerebral metabolism (3) SSEP (Somatosensory Evoked Potential) to show brainstem neurophysiologic functioning and (4) MRI scan of her brain to show anatomical disruption. I understand that either these tests had not been performed in years or were never done in the first place. Although Terri was judicially condemned to death, she met almost none of the standard Harvard criteria for brain death.

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 09:35 AM

She did have an EEG and it was flat.

Griff · 03-31-2005, 09:41 AM

I guess we have to take your word for it?

lizthefiz · 03-31-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

She did have an EEG and it was flat.

According to CNN's neurologist Dr. Gupta that is not correct. They had a discussion regarding it last night.

Nevertheless, Terri has passed away. May she rest now in peace.

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 09:52 AM

No, there is plenty of information available on this case for those who wish to seek it out.

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 10:13 AM

It's a polite oversimplification. One EEG lead was flat because one section of her brain was dead.

liz, Dr. Gupta did not address EEGs on Aaron Brown last night so on which show did you see him discussing this?

Happy Monkey · 03-31-2005, 10:14 AM

The doctor who examined her, and took the EEGs, said they were flat. Gupta based his diagnosis on the videotape, like "Dr." Frist and so many pundits who want to be considered experts on TV.

lizthefiz · 03-31-2005, 10:23 AM

Gupta was on Nancy Grace, Larry King & Anderson Cooper. He prefaced everthing he said with a comment that he did not examine Terri and to make a general statement re: her condition from a video would be wrong and essentially unethical.

He did look (apparantly previously) at some medical data that had been released from previous trial information. I thought overall he was non judgmental and very objective which is very hard to do in this case.

Troubleshooter · 03-31-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

The doctor who examined her, and took the EEGs, said they were flat. Gupta based his diagnosis on the videotape, like "Dr." Frist and so many pundits who want to be considered experts on TV.

Let's not forget Dr. Delay.

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 10:42 AM

Got it liz, thanks. from Nancy Grace:

Quote:

GRACE: Dr. Eric Braverman, are we convinced that Terri Schiavo feels nothing? I find it hard to believe that -- taking someone off a ventilator, that`s one thing, but allowing them to starve to death?

DR. ERIC BRAVERMAN, DIRECTOR OF PATH MEDICAL: I appreciate your empathy, but Terri has been dead for a very long time, essentially. And she has gone to God. And what you have there is a brain essentially filled with water and a flat line EEG of a persistent vegetative state.

And you need to understand that the empathy is being misplaced. We have a brain health crisis in this country, and this person has been essentially brain dead. Nobody has any hope of function -- even if it was MCS, a minimally conscious state, she would never recover. What you`re looking there is a corpse and an embalmed individual that is being preserved unnaturally, a waste of medical resources, a misunderstanding of false hope that`s been projected. It is a tragedy.

GRACE: Dr. Braverman, have you ever actually seen Terri Schiavo?

BRAVERMAN: I have spoken with Dr. Cranford. Actually, doctors don`t need to see the patient. The video analysis is a deception. What doctors need is to know a flat line EEG. I`ve kept hamster brains alive and guinea pig brains alive for ten hours in a dish and they had more EEG activity. You have to understand...

GRACE: Sanjay...

BRAVERMAN: You have to understand. She has less brain activity than animals. She has a brain filled with water or cerebral spinal fluid.

GRACE: Let me go very quickly to Dr. Gupta. Response, Sanjay?

GUPTA: First of all, you know, she doesn`t have a flat EEG. And I think that everyone who initially said that has disagreed that she has a flat EEG. Calling her brain dead just is not right.

And whether or not she`s in a persistent vegetative state, or a permanent vegetative state, or a minimally conscience, you can argue those terms, but I think it`s irresponsible probably to keep saying that she is brain dead. Because clearly you can look at that person and see that she`s not brain dead. It doesn`t add anything to the argument here, Nancy.

Braverman is using the "shorthand" of saying the EEG is flat because there was one dead section of her brain. The leads measuring activity in those sections would be flat although leads in other areas measuring involuntary activity would not be flat. Gupta objects because there are other sections of her brain that are not dead. Describing her as "brain dead" is wrong because she still had functioning brain matter that was not flat on an EEG. That functioning brain matter governed involuntary activity such as breathing and blinking.

Brett's Honey · 03-31-2005, 11:10 AM

Finally - may Terri rest in peace (not anytime soon though if God allows television up there). I thought I had heard every disagreement between these two families, but I'd missed one until this morning. Cremation vs. burial? Apparently they're not going to get to have that fight since it sounds like Michael is being allowed to make his wife's final arrangements. Has this argument been going on for some time too?
Hearing it made lots of thoughts cross my mind - (ten years from now some nurse or family member comes along again with new accusations against Michael and the fight to exhume the body begins....) I don't know if cremation was always his (their?) plan, but I can see why it may be the best way for it to finally be really the end of this 15 year ordeal for Michael Schaivo.

Kitsune · 03-31-2005, 02:34 PM

Finally - may Terri rest in peace

Enter: wrongful death charges.

03-31-2005, 08:55 AM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Well she's dead now so... __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-31-2005, 09:31 AM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I don't know if this guy is in the know, but wouldn't more brain imaging while she was alive have been more useful? In order to begin to disprove my conviction that Terri suffered during her forced starvation her doctors would have had to perform an (1) EEG (electroencephalogram) showing cortical brainwave activity (2) PET (Positron Emission Tomography) Scan to show a reduction in cerebral metabolism (3) SSEP (Somatosensory Evoked Potential) to show brainstem neurophysiologic functioning and (4) MRI scan of her brain to show anatomical disruption. I understand that either these tests had not been performed in years or were never done in the first place. Although Terri was judicially condemned to death, she met almost none of the standard Harvard criteria for brain death. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-31-2005, 09:41 AM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I guess we have to take your word for it? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-31-2005, 10:14 AM	#10
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	The doctor who examined her, and took the EEGs, said they were flat. Gupta based his diagnosis on the videotape, like "Dr." Frist and so many pundits who want to be considered experts on TV. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-31-2005, 08:56 AM	#2
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Donning Kevlar now.

03-31-2005, 09:35 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	She did have an EEG and it was flat.

03-31-2005, 09:52 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	No, there is plenty of information available on this case for those who wish to seek it out.

03-31-2005, 10:13 AM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It's a polite oversimplification. One EEG lead was flat because one section of her brain was dead. liz, Dr. Gupta did not address EEGs on Aaron Brown last night so on which show did you see him discussing this?

03-31-2005, 10:23 AM	#11
lizthefiz Resident-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7	Gupta was on Nancy Grace, Larry King & Anderson Cooper. He prefaced everthing he said with a comment that he did not examine Terri and to make a general statement re: her condition from a video would be wrong and essentially unethical. He did look (apparantly previously) at some medical data that had been released from previous trial information. I thought overall he was non judgmental and very objective which is very hard to do in this case.

03-31-2005, 11:10 AM	#14
Brett's Honey whatever Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 308	Finally - may Terri rest in peace (not anytime soon though if God allows television up there). I thought I had heard every disagreement between these two families, but I'd missed one until this morning. Cremation vs. burial? Apparently they're not going to get to have that fight since it sounds like Michael is being allowed to make his wife's final arrangements. Has this argument been going on for some time too? Hearing it made lots of thoughts cross my mind - (ten years from now some nurse or family member comes along again with new accusations against Michael and the fight to exhume the body begins....) I don't know if cremation was always his (their?) plan, but I can see why it may be the best way for it to finally be really the end of this 15 year ordeal for Michael Schaivo.

03-31-2005, 02:34 PM	#15
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Finally - may Terri rest in peace Enter: wrongful death charges.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)