Congress Wasting Time & Money

[Kitsune]

Quick, we must stop sexual predators from hurting your children. Section 606 of the bill introduces an interesting law:

(Sec. 606) Prohibits the production of obscene materials for sale or distribution in interstate commerce.

[9th Engineer]

Don't let any of those issues distract you from the huge percentage of the population that is threatening the tiny minority of christians in this country with their efforts to "ban" prayer from public schools.

When was the last time you looked at the religious demographics in the US??? The majority of Americans identify themselves as some denomination of Christianity.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

When was the last time you looked at the religious demographics in the US??? The majority of Americans identify themselves as some denomination of Christianity.

Shh -- I was being sarcastic, there.

[9th Engineer]

damn. sarcasm meter must've broke. I've gotta stop buying Chinese surplus:p

[fargon]

Originally Posted by tw

IOW emotion - not facts - are only important.

Just had a discussion with a religious extremist. I asked if a gunman was standing right here and shooting 30 people across the parking lot, then what would he do. He said he would pray for the gunman. That prayer hopefully would stop the gunman. I told him he so hated those 30 people as to let them die. If so, it was god's will.

I would physically attack the gunman. He then said that was wrong because I might die. I asked him why he though prayer would do anything. He said that prayer might stop the gunman from shooting the rest of those 30 people.

These are same people opposed to science and research. No wonder Hitler could also brain wash these people into hating races inferior to Aryans. He would pray to god to stop the gunman. He also said evolution could not exist because he just knew. Also called brainwashing. No wonder the Federal Judge found that religious extremists would take an oath on the bible and still outright lie in open court - in violation of the Ten Commandments. And they would still call themselves good religious people? Yes, he even endorsed torture in Guantanamo and saw no relation to the Spanish Inquisition.

Remember these people vote because most centrists do not. These are the people who will even reelect Rick Santorum. History suggest that most member of The Cellar will not vote – therefore approve of leaders who should pray rather than stop the gunman.

I am a religious right winger , and I would shoot the gunman and then pray for him. Saving the lives of others is most important thing you can do.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

When was the last time you looked at the religious demographics in the US??? The majority of Americans identify themselves as some denomination of Christianity.

Good & so what, separation of church and state is still a foundation of this nation.

[9th Engineer]

Most christians are not looking to turn other people into defacto converts by writing the religion into law. However, when things come up for vote they vote based on principles that are not part of the doctrine of their church. Most of these principles are not unique to any religion and can be brought to the voters box without any mingling of church and state. take the first commandment for example "Thou shall not kill". Even though it's placement in the religion should rule it out for use in law, we allow it to be used because we understand that it is rediculous to suggest that telling people we don't tolerate murder is the same forcing them to follow Christianity. Before screaming that Christians are trying to convert everyone else try checking up on where the principle in question fits into the larger picture.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Before screaming that Christians are trying to convert everyone else try checking up on where the principle in question fits into the larger picture.

The "Christian" Church teaches all sorts of things things that have nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, and the "Christians" vote, based on that. It isn't technically Christianity, but they believe it is right because they heard it in a Christian Church.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

take the first commandment for example "Thou shall not kill". Even though it's placement in the religion should rule it out for use in law,

Um, no. Separation of church and state isn't "if a religion agrees then you can't do it." It's perfectly OK for a religion to agree with a law, it just can't be the sole justification.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Flint

The "Christian" Church teaches all sorts of things things that have nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, and the "Christians" vote, based on that. It isn't technically Christianity, but they believe it is right because they heard it in a Christian Church.

No, "Christians" vote all over the spectrum of possibilities. No one could ever count on the "Christian" vote.... ask any politician.

[Flint]

I think you know what I mean.

I didn't say they vote exclusively "based on that."

:::sings::: words put in my mouth, with your ass-u-ming, these are a few of my of my least favorite things

EDIT:

[xoxoxoBruce]

I didn't say they vote exclusively "based on that."

No, you didn't say exclusively. You also didn't say, partially. You just said

snip~ and the "Christians" vote, based on that. ~snip

I believe you said that, because you want to reinforce your position that anyone that belongs to a church is a robot, that does what they're told and can't disagree with anything the church suggests...... or think for themselves.
Am I wrong?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Am I wrong?

Yes.

9th Engineer commented that Christian values often overlap with secular values, and suggested that this presents a difficulty in separation of the two. I added that there is an inherent blurriness within the scope of Christian values that makes this separation an impossibility before you even cross over from one side to the other. In other words, Christian values are not well-defined enough to be contrasted against an opposing set.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Flint

9th Engineer commented that Christian values often overlap with secular values,

Old English law overlaps with American law. Therefore we should promote English law?

A society where god is found in science, math, and other studies of god's law is also a society that can select from historical lessons only that which works and is appropriate. Christian values are flawed in that those values are somehow written in stone - cannot change as other men learn more of god's laws. Christian values are perverted because they are introverted. Mankind takes from Christian values, Muslim values, René Decartes, Buddist values, Aristotle, science discoveries, legal principles, Chinese philosophy, mistakes from history, etc to create American values.

What is fundamental to American values and what is so foreign to Christian values? Innovation. Everything that defines a patriotic American is about innovation. Christian values would still have us claiming a sun goes around the earth and the moon is self illuminating.

One early principle that became part of American values are the reason why the Ten Commandments worked. American values don't worship the Ten Commandments. American values respect principles that made Ten Commandments a new Constitution for that early human society. We also don't worship Greek philosophy and their gods. But we take and learn from their lessons as well. American values are about innovation - how we worship the real god.

[Ibby]

Wow, a coherent and almost brilliant post, from tw of all people!