Illegal to Feed Homeless in Parks

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

If minimum wage was enough to provide food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, and maybe a few amenities, there would be fewer of these folks in the park.

How much per hour do you reckon that would have to be?

Maybe there would just be fewer minimum wage jobs, and MickeyDburgers would cost north of $15 each. Or maybe that would simply expand opportunitidades por nos hermanos y hermanas hispanicos sin documentos.

Perhaps you'd get to order it as "Doble hamburguesa con queso, por favor. Aqui esta America. Habla español."

And no, using estar vs. ser wasn't a mistake.

Originally Posted by dar512

I disagree. Word gets around. "Did you know they hand out sandwiches at the park at 3pm?". One tells another and so on. Then they hang out around the park -- because, hey, that's where they hand out sandwiches.

I used to work in the Pioneer Square area of Seattle - right by where the original "Skid Row" was in the depression. There were always lots of homeless in the area - because there was a shelter in the area. Same deal.

So, next logical step is to outlaw shelters?

Originally Posted by dar512

Unlikely. Homelessness is not a temporary condition for most of these folks -- it's a lifestyle.

I understand that most of these folks can't improve themselves because they have mental issues. I am compassionate to their situation. But you can't help a situation if you don't really understand it.

I've been homeless, once as a child. You assume much.
This is about just helping to feed them, not building them homes there. But I guess we cannot be burdened by those trying to help some people who are hungry... the hungry are so very inconvenient and look so bad with the landscaping.
This law is so much better than one that outlaws having too few beds in shelters and clinics, nice priorities there.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

This is about just helping to feed them, not building them homes there. But I guess we cannot be burdened by those trying to help some people who are hungry... the hungry are so very inconvenient.

OK, so feed them at your house. Problem solved.

[Happy Monkey]

Not really. You can bet that neighborhood zoning issues would come up for that much faster than they did for public parks.

[capnhowdy]

Why doesn't some genius politician create a program so these people could EARN some food in exchange for grounds maintenance? I'm sure sandwiches and coffee would be cheaper than overpaying the lazy-ass city employees. At the same time it may improve their social skills and in turn be a type of therapy.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

So, next logical step is to outlaw shelters?

Nowhere did I say or convey that. The point was that the homeless go where there's help. You made the point that there would not be more homeless in a particular area just because there were handouts. I refuted it.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I've been homeless, once as a child. You assume much.

Notice that I used the word most when describing the long-term homeless.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

This is about just helping to feed them, not building them homes there. But I guess we cannot be burdened by those trying to help some people who are hungry... the hungry are so very inconvenient and look so bad with the landscaping.
This law is so much better than one that outlaws having too few beds in shelters and clinics, nice priorities there.

I'm not against feeding them. I just thing there's better places to do it than the park.

I also recognize that feeding them is just putting a band-aid on the problem. I suspect that more and better facilities for the mentally ill would go a long way to easing the problem.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Not really. You can bet that neighborhood zoning issues would come up for that much faster than they did for public parks.

{insert rant about how zoning is controlled by the evil rich property owners who hate people here}

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

How much per hour do you reckon that would have to be?

Maybe there would just be fewer minimum wage jobs, and MickeyDburgers would cost north of $15 each. Or maybe that would simply expand opportunitidades por nos hermanos y hermanas hispanicos sin documentos.
...

So what's the answer?

Can't feed 'em in the park,
Can't feed 'em in the square,
Can't feed in your home,
Can't feed 'em anywhere!
Do you want them to go to hell?
Do you want that, MaggieL?

Seriously. It's a matter of choice, and the continuum goes from kill them all to help them all. Do you want to spend your money or your conscience?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

{insert rant about how zoning is controlled by the evil rich property owners who hate people here}

It may very well be, but that's not the issue - if a place is zoned residential, setting up what amounts to a soup kitchen (or any other business/organization that generates foot traffic) would almost certainly be prohibited. And if the foot traffic is homeless people, you can bet it will be enforced double quick.

Heck, getting a homeless shelter or soup kitchen through zoning in a commercial area is hard enough.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So what's the answer?

The answer is, if you want to feed the homeless, in addition to finding the food, and perhaps preparing it (and accepting the liability if it harms the people you give it to), you have the additional job of providing a place to distribute (and perhaps eat) it. You're not entitled to turn a public park into a soup kitchen. Yes, it's a logistical hassle...but this is a logistical undertaking.

I'm not the one who is proposing doing (only part of) the job. If you want the warm fuzzy feeling, you do the the work.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by dar512

I suspect that more and better facilities for the mentally ill would go a long way to easing the problem.

Bingo. The homeless problem really took off in the 80s when the Reagan administration drastically cut federal funding to mental hospitals. Many of the patients left the hospitals and hit the streets.

The problem is far from simple.

A solution requires coordination between local, state and federal governments. It also requires cooperation from private volunteers who hand out sandwiches in the park, and the charity organizations that run kitchens and shelters.

If better facilities were available for the mentally ill, and if areas were set aside where the homeless could squat without hassles from the police, hell, maybe even with the protection of the police, and if bathrooms were set up that they could use, and if job training/help was more readily available for those that wanted it, the problem would decline.

Lots of locations just pick them up and give them a bus ticket.

Passing laws restricting behavior is really just a band aid on a symptom, it isn't going to do much to fix anything.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So what's the answer?

What's *your* answer? How much per hour would minimum wage have to be before your shiny, happy fed/housed/healthcared/amenitied criteria would be met? It's obviously such a simple solution, let's see you put a price tag on it.

The collectivist crowd here seems to be doing a lot of handwaving about how if only there wasn't so much poverty, un- and under-employment and untreated mental illness, there would be less homelessness.

Duh.

[MaggieL]

I'm reminded of the folks who used to buy soft pretzels at 30th Street Station and then amuse themselves while waiting for their train by feeding the remains to the pigeons. They were never commuters, and didn't have to deal every day with the bird exhaust encrusting everything (including few available benches on the platform)...they got their strokes and moved on.

I sometimes fantasized a giant mutant pigeon carrying them off to feed to her young...their companions screaming to them "Charleen! Charleen! Drop the car keys!"

[Griff]

I wish this thread was what I misread it as.

Illegals to Feed Homeless in Parks

Originally Posted by dar512

Nowhere did I say or convey that. The point was that the homeless go where there's help. You made the point that there would not be more homeless in a particular area just because there were handouts. I refuted it.


Notice that I used the word most when describing the long-term homeless.


I'm not against feeding them. I just thing there's better places to do it than the park.

I also recognize that feeding them is just putting a band-aid on the problem. I suspect that more and better facilities for the mentally ill would go a long way to easing the problem.

Agree with all of this... has nothing to do with the mean-spirited legislation that we are discussing. It is in the vein of the NY downtown "clean-up". I was there during that and it almost made me believe in evil.