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#16 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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It's miscarriage, is what it is. Now the question becomes:
Much of the time, the lining of the womb just naturally does not accept the implantation of the zygote, and it winds up expelled as menstruation. The "morning after" pill makes it possible for the woman to create conditions where it doesn't implant. So if God makes the conditions of the womb, and more than half the time, He creates a condition for this very type of early miscarriage, why would it be a mortal sin for the woman to create that condition? If He knows that it will abort naturally, does He still provide the conceived zygote with a mortal soul? |
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#17 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
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I though miscarriage was when it lost its hold on the wall, not when it doesn't attach at all? Or is it both?
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_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
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#18 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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Both I think. Medline says,
A spontaneous abortion is the loss of a fetus during pregnancy due to natural causes. The term "miscarriage" is the spontaneous termination of a pregnancy before fetal development has reached 20 weeks. Pregnancy losses after the 20th week are categorized as preterm deliveries. |
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#19 |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
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It's not the scientific details that are motivating these people from blocking it, they believe that sex before marriage is wrong and will oppose anything and everything that promotes it or makes it easier. Simple.
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The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity. |
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#20 |
Curious Sagittarius
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 302
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So much for stem cell research.....won't be any raw material.
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~There is a forest in an acorn...... |
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#21 |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
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No big loss. If we had stopped Reeve from misinforming so many people about it it wouldn't be so bad.
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The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity. |
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#22 | |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
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Quote:
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_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
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#23 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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Shrug. I dunno, it's the same Medline entry that says spontaneous abortion happens 50% of the time.
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#24 | ||
polaroid of perfection
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
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Quote:
Quote:
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Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac |
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#25 | |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Quote:
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#26 |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
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I'm making more of a reference to the information used during the last election. Reeve made rounds with the Democrats playing up Bush's opposition to using federal money for stem cell research. He made outragous statements leading people to believe that people like him 'could have a cure' if only Bush wasn't stopping it. Complete bullshit. The state of the technology is this, we want to learn what it is about totipotent and pluripotent cells that allows them to become very specialized structures such as muscle or nerve bundles. They were giving people the idea that this would logically lead to the growing of whole organs and tissue replacements within a localized timeframe. That would have been like a scientist saying we need to research transistors so that we can build human-level AI systems.
I'm just saying he gave alot of people a very unrealistic view of what we can do or intend to do once given the ok with this.
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The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity. |
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#27 |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 872
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I'm also ticked that everyone thinks this is all Bush's doing, it was Clinton and the Dickey Ammendment which made it illegal to use federal money to fund stem cell research which involves destroying an embryo.
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The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity. |
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#28 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Morning-after pill to be available without prescription
Buyers must prove they're 18 or older Friday, August 25, 2006; Posted: 1:28 a.m. EDT (05:28 GMT) Plan B will be available over the counter to women 18 or older, the Food and Drug Administration says. Differences between the morning-after pill and the abortion pill, which are different drugs: The morning-after pill prevents pregnancy but has no effect if a woman already is pregnant. Sold under the brand name Plan B, it's a higher-than-normal dose of a hormone found in regular birth-control pills and prevents ovulation or fertilization of an egg. It also may prevent the egg from implanting into the uterus, the medical definition of pregnancy, but recent research suggests that's not likely. The abortion pill, RU-486 or Mifeprex, can terminate pregnancy up to 49 days after the beginning of the last menstrual cycle. It's a two-pill process. First is Mifeprex, which blocks production of a hormone required to sustain pregnancy. Then a second medicine, misoprostol, to cause contractions and finish the abortion. WASHINGTON (AP) -- Women can buy the morning-after pill without a prescription, the government declared Thursday, a major step that nevertheless failed to quell the politically charged debate over access to emergency contraception. The manufacturer, lawmakers and other advocates said they will press the government to allow minors to purchase the pills over the counter. The Food and Drug Administration said that women 18 and older -- and men purchasing for their partners -- may buy the Plan B pills without a doctor's note, but only from pharmacies. Girls 17 and younger still will need a prescription to buy the pills, the FDA told manufacturer Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., in ruling on an application filed in 2003. Still at odds The compromise decision is a partial victory for women's advocacy and medical groups, which say easier access could halve the nation's 3 million annual unplanned pregnancies. "While we are glad to know the FDA finally ended its foot-dragging on this issue, Planned Parenthood is troubled by the scientifically baseless restriction imposed on teenagers. The U.S. has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the Western world -- anything that makes it harder for teenagers to avoid unintended pregnancy is bad medicine and bad public policy," president Cecile Richards said. Opponents contend that nonprescription availability could increase promiscuity and promote use of the pills by sexual predators. "If the FDA thinks that enacting an age restriction will work, or that the drug company will enforce it ... then they are living in a dream world," said Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, who led the opposition. Pregnancy risk reduced Plan B contains a concentrated dose of the same drug found in many regular birth-control pills. Planned Parenthood estimates 41 other countries already allow women to buy emergency contraception without a prescription. If a woman takes Plan B within 72 hours of unprotected sex, she can lower the risk of pregnancy by up to 89 percent. Plan B is different from the abortion pill: If a woman already is pregnant, Plan B has no effect. The earlier the pills are taken, the more effective they are. Allowing nonprescription sales mean women won't have to hustle to get a prescription, something especially difficult on weekends and holidays, advocates said. The FDA's long delay in deciding on Barr's application ensnared President Bush's nominee to head the regulatory agency. On Thursday, two senators said they would lift their Plan-B-related block on Dr. Andrew von Eschenbach. In recent weeks, anti-abortion groups, angered that approval was imminent, had urged Bush to withdraw von Eschenbach's nomination. Bush said Monday that he supported the doctor's decisions. Only at pharmacies Barr hopes to begin nonprescription sales of Plan B by the end of the year. The pills will be sold only from behind the counter at pharmacies, but not at convenience stores or gas stations. Pharmacists will check photo identification. There isn't enough scientific evidence that young teens can safely use Plan B without a doctor's supervision, von Eschenbach said in a memo. Over-the-counter use is safe for older teens and adults, the acting FDA commissioner added in explaining the age cutoff. "This approach should help ensure safe and effective use of the product," wrote von Eschenbach. Barr and others were disappointed that FDA imposed the age restriction. Bruce L. Downey, Barr's chairman, pledged to continue working with the agency to try to eliminate it. The age restriction remains controversial even inside FDA, agency drugs chief Dr. Steven Galson told The Associated Press. Galson has acknowledged overruling his staff scientists, who concluded in 2004 that nonprescription sales would be safe for all ages. "Let me be frank, there still are disagreements," Galson said in an interview. "There were disagreements from the first second this application came in the house." The Center for Reproductive Rights said a lawsuit filed last year to do away with all age restrictions would continue. Age-limit enforcement As a condition of approval, Barr agreed to use anonymous shoppers and other methods to check whether pharmacists are enforcing the age restriction. "I'm sure the FDA will follow through on that and make sure these important conditions are established and enforced," said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino. Barr hasn't said whether it will raise the price of the pills, which now cost $25 to $40 in prescription form. Planned Parenthood, the largest dispenser of the pills, expects some insurers to continue covering prescription sales. Whether that would be cheaper will depend on a woman's insurance. Nine states -- Alaska, California, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Washington and Vermont -- already allow certain pharmacies to sell Plan B without a doctor's prescription to women of any age. Minors won't see any change in those states, because the pharmacist already technically writes the prescription, the American Pharmacists Association said. The FDA approved prescription-only sales of Plan B in 1999. The quest to change its status began in 2003. That year, agency advisers endorsed nonprescription sales for all ages, and FDA's staff scientists agreed. Higher-ranking officials rejected that recommendation, citing concerns about young teens using the pills without oversight. Barr reapplied, asking that women 16 and older be allowed to buy Plan B without a prescription. Then last August, the FDA postponed a final decision indefinitely, saying the agency needed to determine how to enforce the age restrictions. FDA's handling of Plan B sparked a firestorm, with allegations of political meddling, high-profile resignations, lawsuits and congressional investigations. The controversy appears to have helped Plan B sales, which are up an estimated 30 percent this year, according to IMS Health Inc., a health care consulting company. Barr estimates pharmacists dispense about 1.5 million packs a year. Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
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#29 |
polaroid of perfection
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
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Obviously it's a Yay! from me, but I wonder if it will actually make any difference. I admit ignorance on the way your legal system works, but I guess if 9 States had already legalised it, then surely if the others wanted to they would have? I also seem to remember something on TV that suggested while abortion is legal, one State (one of the Dakotas maybe?) now had no Doctors willing to perform the procedure, and in fact the only willing Doctor covered 3 States and was about to retire. This is from memory, but am pretty sure that was the case.
The only other comment I can make is that I don't think statistics bear out the assumption the morning after pill reduces teenage pregnancy. Again, I may be wrong, but my PCT has one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the country and as stated before we were running a free of charge OTC service... EHC mops up after responsible people who worry about unsafe sex and whether they are pregnant. [generalisation] That doesn't seem to include most teenage mothers. [/generalisation] I say get them all fitted with a 3 year implant. I'm only half joking (I have one myself)
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Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac |
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#30 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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ROB KIM / LANDOVThe FDA approved Plan B, an emergency contraceptive used to prevent pregnancy available without a prescription to women 18 and older, on August 24, 2006.
Nation Why the Plan B Debate Won't Go Away As the FDA approves the morning-after pill for over-the-counter sales to adults, conservatives beat up on the federal agency and the drugmaker begins its push to make Plan B available to younger women By LAURA BLUE Posted Friday, Aug. 25, 2006 The Food and Drug Administration may have ended a three-year health-policy dispute when it approved the "morning-after pill," Plan B, for over-the-counter sale yesterday. But fallout from the political feud surrounding Plan B will play out for months. Democratic Senators Patty Murray and Hillary Clinton dropped their objections Thursday to confirming Andrew von Eschenbach, acting FDA commissioner since September 2005; the Senators had vowed to stall von Eschenbach's nomination at the committee stage until the emergency contraception was made available over the counter. But more bitter response erupted immediately from conservative and faith-based groups, some calling on President Bush to withdraw von Eschenbach's nomination altogether because of the pills that, if taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, can greatly reduce the chance of pregnancy. Both sides of the debate were quick to decry the FDA's ruling as political. "Clearly in this case corners were cut," says Family Research Council health policy analyst Moira Gaul, claiming the FDA overlooked what her group calls a lack of safety evidence. Backers of Plan B, on the other hand, were angered by the FDA's age restrictions on the drug: patients under 18 must still have a prescription to get the drug, even though the FDA's own scientific advisers never recommended such a policy. "They have been playing politics with this issue for 40 months," says Jackie Payne, director of government relations for the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, of FDA leadership. "They're continuing to play politics with teens." Plan B is a synthetic form of progesterone, a hormone commonly used in birth-control pills, and it works by by preventing ovulation, preventing fertilization of the egg, or stopping a fertilized egg from lodging in the uterus. The FDA first approved Plan B, now owned by Delaware's Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., for use with a prescription in 1999, but the controversy erupted in 2003. That's when FDA officials rejected the recommendation of their scientific advisers and refused to grant Plan B approval for over-the-counter use. The acting director of the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research at the time, Dr. Steven Galson, said the drug should not be sold over the counter because there was insufficient evidence to suggest that teenagers would be able to self-administer the drug safely. Critics slammed Galson and other FDA officials, and said going against the medical experts' opinion was a sign that FDA leadership had caved to conservative political pressure. In fact, the FDA considered exactly the same studies when it approved the drug Thursday as it did when it denied the drug over-the-counter sales in 2003. The difference? When Barr resubmitted the application for over-the-counter approval, it limited its request to those patients 16 and older. (A Barr spokeswoman tells TIME it was hard to recruit many girls aged 15 and younger for the kind of studies the FDA wanted, since young teens make up such a small segment of the population needing emergency contraception.) The decision to limit over-the-counter sales to women 18 and up was a compromise reached by the FDA and announced by von Eschenbach — and it's a decision that Barr still intends to challenge. "We'd like to continue to do clinical work now to address the younger patients," says spokeswoman Carol Cox. In the meantime, Cox says, Barr plans to have its brand-new single-purpose prescription and over-the-counter packaging ready to ship out by the end of 2006. The ethical debate, however, is going nowhere fast. Pro-lifers who believe life begins at conception, consider the contraceptive tantamount to abortion, and social conservatives fear that emergency contraceptives will encourage promiscuity. (A California study published in 2005 in Obstetrics and Gynecology found no link between the availability of the morning-after pill and sexual activity.) Meanwhile, even as groups like Planned Parenthood are heralding yesterday's decision as a victory for reproductive rights, they are angered that teens still face obstacles to getting emergency contraceptives. Perhaps the one thing they all agree on is that Plan B could have been handled better. |
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