The "Plane on a Treadmill" Question - Page 2

Kitsune · 12-07-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

It's not already in the air, and it will never get there from a staionary position. The engines DO NOT "push" the plane into the air.

Sure they do. What, you think the wheels do it?

glatt · 12-07-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

It's not already in the air, and it will never get there from a staionary position. The engines DO NOT "push" the plane into the air.

The engines push the plane through the air until lift is achieved. When a plane taxis on a runway, it uses its engines pushing against the air to make it move. The wheels just follow the plane along.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

The wheels just follow the plane along.

Forget the wheels. The plane needs to move against the air to generate lift, to take off. It can't move against the air, so it can't take off.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:04 AM

No. The movement of air over the wings does it. No movement = no lift = it will not take off.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The plane will move forward but not enough to gain enough lift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Of course there is lift. The plane will move forward against the air, and twice as fast against the runway.

No, read the question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

When the plane's engines throttle up, it begins to move forward, but the treadmill is made to match the forward speed of the plane, only in the opposite direction. So, as the plane moves forward, it moves backwards beneath the aircraft.

The plane cannot move against the air, at all.

glatt · 12-07-2006, 11:13 AM

The plane pushes against the air, right?

Picture a different scene. You are in a canoe in a raging river, but you have a pole, and you are using it to push your way up the river. The water is going past the canoe at a very high speed, but since you aren't pushing against the water, this doesn't matter. You push against the ground with a pole.

Here, the plane isn't pushing against the runway, it's pushing against the air. The runway doesn't matter.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Picture a different scene.

No, picture the scene we're talking about: a plane hopping right into the air, straight off the ground. (Commercial jetliners are not designed to do this!) And then say to yourself "oh, gee, what an incredible dumbass I was for even entertaining the fact that this might be possible" . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Here, the plane isn't pushing against the runway, it's pushing against the air. The runway doesn't matter.

And the "pushing" doesn't matter, either. Only the forward motion does. There is no forward motion according to the question.

glatt · 12-07-2006, 11:20 AM

You're messing with me now, aren't you? You know it takes off, but you are playing devil's advocate just to keep the argument going.

glatt · 12-07-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

There is no forward motion according to the question.

The question doesn't say that.

Undertoad · 12-07-2006, 11:10 AM

OK, OK I'm convinced.

Which makes me a worse job candidate, except that I have the ideal answer to all such interview questions:

Oh, I've already heard that one.

That is, unless you want to use a constructed answer. The answer to why manholes are round? Because men are round. Duh.

"What would you do for a Klondike bar?"
I'm sorry, but I can't discuss salary during a first interview.

Spexxvet · 12-07-2006, 11:10 AM

Sure, all it would need is a wind blowing at the front of the plane, that is strong enough to create lift.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Sure, all it would need is a wind blowing at the front of the plane, that is strong enough to create lift.

Spexxvet · 12-07-2006, 11:15 AM

It would not take off.

Quote:

the treadmill is made to match the forward speed of the plane

not the speed that the tries rotate. The plane will not move forward, cannot take off.

Flint · 12-07-2006, 11:22 AM

IM ON UR RUNWAY SPINNIN UR TIREZ

Undertoad · 12-07-2006, 11:23 AM

12-07-2006, 11:04 AM	#4
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	No. The movement of air over the wings does it. No movement = no lift = it will not take off. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-07-2006, 11:10 AM	#11
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Sure, all it would need is a wind blowing at the front of the plane, that is strong enough to create lift. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

12-07-2006, 11:22 AM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	IM ON UR RUNWAY SPINNIN UR TIREZ __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-07-2006, 11:13 AM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	The plane pushes against the air, right? Picture a different scene. You are in a canoe in a raging river, but you have a pole, and you are using it to push your way up the river. The water is going past the canoe at a very high speed, but since you aren't pushing against the water, this doesn't matter. You push against the ground with a pole. Here, the plane isn't pushing against the runway, it's pushing against the air. The runway doesn't matter.

12-07-2006, 11:20 AM	#8
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	You're messing with me now, aren't you? You know it takes off, but you are playing devil's advocate just to keep the argument going.

12-07-2006, 11:10 AM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	OK, OK I'm convinced. Which makes me a worse job candidate, except that I have the ideal answer to all such interview questions: Oh, I've already heard that one. That is, unless you want to use a constructed answer. The answer to why manholes are round? Because men are round. Duh. "What would you do for a Klondike bar?" I'm sorry, but I can't discuss salary during a first interview.

12-07-2006, 11:23 AM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423

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