Surgery VS Ransom

[DanaC]

I'd rather the state decide than the economy

[Shawnee123]

Our state and our economy are the same: they both suck!

[Griff]

A free economy would be a more moral choice.

This guy has freed his practice from third party payers, which are the real problem with the American system.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Griff

A free economy would be a more moral choice.

This guy has freed his practice from third party payers, which are the real problem with the American system.

Third parties are the real problem for relatively healthy people who are only getting routine preventative care. Yes. But they will save your life if you really get a major illness and can't afford the very expensive treatments on your own.

[Griff]

Those special situations are what insurance companies are actually good at and were originally for, distributing the cost of prohibitively expensive procedures/meds. They should not be skimming off the top of the day to day relationship between the doctor and patient.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Griff

I'd suggest thet she's just as convinced of that as you are that the State needs to decide who dies.

The only one who should decide who dies is the person in question or their designee. The state should be in charge of saying that nobody else makes the decision.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

Oh I just hate it when people say that. Do your beliefs, morals, convictions, whatever, go right out the window when your own family is involved??? Yuk.

That kind of question puts things in perspective, and many people's "beliefs, morals, convictions" change. For instance, Dick Cheney's issue with his lesbian daughter, and stem cell research opponents when Dutch Reagan bit the big one.

I'm disgusted at the "I say let them die" attitude soem people have. Especially when they have a different feeling when it hits close to home.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

How about if it was your kid, and you had no health insurance?

I'd do what it takes to save my kid. I wouldn't demand that you do it.

I'm disgusted at the "I say let them die" attitude soem people have. Especially when they have a different feeling when it hits close to home.

i'm disgusted by the bald faced entitlement some people exhibit.

I didn't say let them die. But no one owes you a heart if yours doesn't work.

You put this retarded analogy up there and expect people to treat it seriously? Really. re-read it. it's retarded.

[TheMercenary]

A minority of the people require the most expensive health care. People who work in health care need incentive to do it. Economics are a big part of the problem. Large HMO's, Pharmacy industries, and Insurance companies are the one's getting rich. The health care providers are not, well a few are, but not most.

So you smoke all your life and suddenly expect my tax dollars to pay for your lung transplant? You weigh 300 pounds and suddenly it is my responsibility to pay for your knee replacement? You drive drunk and are involved in an MVA, spend 3 months in ICU and have a head injury that requires life long nursing care and I should pay for that? You sneak into the US illegally and I should pay for your complicated OB care and the 4 months in ICU for your premature baby? You live on bagles and cream cheese and chips all your life and I should pay for your Fem-pop by-pass? You are a diabetic and don't care for yourself so now I should pay for your dialysis and subsequent kidney transplant. The list goes on... Where does it stop. Well I guess you could say that because of the color of your skin that your ancestors never had a choice to come to this country so it is my fault that you are the way you are and so I should have to pay for your free health care. I don't buy it. Like someone else said, life ain't fair, wear a helmet.

[DanaC]

Well I guess you could say that because of the color of your skin that your ancestors never had a choice to come to this country so it is my fault that you are the way you are and so I should have to pay for your free health care.

You seem inordinately interested in skin colour.

Not everyone (or even most) who needs medical assistance, is in that position because of their lifestyle/carelessness/human folly.

You're right. Life is unfair. Society is the helmet.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

You need a heart transplant or you'll die. The heart transplant costs $250,000, and you don't have health insurance.

Is this any different than someone putting a gun to your head and demanding $250,000 to not pull the trigger? If it's different, how?

If you're 60, heavy smoker, overweight, bad diet, too unhealthy to be employed (hence no insurance), then yes, it's different.

If you're a child with an incurable heart defect, then no.

[DanaC]

How about if you're a clean living, hard working father of four whose employer doesn't include health benefits in with the remuneration package and your minimum wage doesn't stretch to health insurance?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by monster

If you're 60, heavy smoker, overweight, bad diet, too unhealthy to be employed (hence no insurance), then yes, it's different.

If you're a child with an incurable heart defect, then no.

I would agree with that.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

You seem inordinately interested in skin colour.

Not everyone (or even most) who needs medical assistance, is in that position because of their lifestyle/carelessness/human folly.

You're right. Life is unfair. Society is the helmet.

Society is not the helmet if you are stupid. If you are stupid you have no helmet. Some of the skin color has nothing to do with health care. Idiot behaviors which force my bills to be higher and insurance premiums to be higher are the issue here.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

How about if you're a clean living, hard working father of four whose employer doesn't include health benefits in with the remuneration package and your minimum wage doesn't stretch to health insurance?

For those people we need a plan. This is not the person who is cranking up the rates. Look at any major hospital in the US and find out what are the most expensive patients they treat. #1 is trauma, and of those most are uninsured.