The Smoking Gun

[piercehawkeye45]

From what I understand this type of torture is just a different form of torture with different results in mind than the one's used at Gitmo so comparing them would be invalid.

Physical and psychological torture are two very different things and one is not worse than the other even though the outside effects may be very different.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think the difference is psychological torture has different effects on different people. Some crack right away and some may take years to crack.

Physical torture has the same physical effect on everyone.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I think the difference is psychological torture has different effects on different people. Some crack right away and some may take years to crack.

Physical torture has the same physical effect on everyone.

We should be doing neither, ever.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

From what I understand this type of torture is just a different form of torture with different results in mind than the one's used at Gitmo so comparing them would be invalid.

Physical and psychological torture are two very different things and one is not worse than the other even though the outside effects may be very different.

You're kidding right? The psychological techniques used by the military are no different than those used by your local police.

[piercehawkeye45]

Some people can handle physical pain better than others.

I am not talking about resistance, I am saying they have different effects so they should not be compared as "what is worse?"

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes they can, but removing an eye has the same effect on everyone...one less eye.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Well, anyway, Aliantha: yeah. It is. Gitmo shows our restraint -- even when the Gitmo prisoners try provoking our MP's by flinging piss on them from behind their cell bars. We do not shoot them for this. We're so cool.

Yay, Us.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Well, anyway, Aliantha: yeah. It is. Gitmo shows our restraint -- even when the Gitmo prisoners try provoking our MP's by flinging piss on them from behind their cell bars. We do not shoot them for this. We're so cool.

Yay, Us.

I feel so sorry for you UG.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I feel so sorry for you UG.

Don't. There is no need.

Where there is need, however, is for the breaking of all non-democracies. No other form of governance is remotely as legitimate as a democracy. Nondemocracies behave far worse than democracies do, as any perusal of current events will show. The world's troubles -- do they not have their origin exclusively from the less-than-democracies?

Pedant's note: I'm counting republics among the species of democracies.

[piercehawkeye45]

Your police lock you in a room with no natural light, don't let you sleep by blasting metallica, deprive you of food, drench you with icy cold water to wash you, and all of that all without a set release date? I must know the wrong police officers...

[Aliantha]

some would view the united states as the source of their troubles.

It's all a matter of perspective UG. You should try and remember that once in a while.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

There is accurate perspective, and there is inaccurate perspective.

You want a good world? You make democracy regardless of anything the fascists may say, do, or attempt. We democrats must prevail.

The smell of dead fascists rotting is but a momentary annoyance contrasted with democracy's ongoing benefits.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

We democrats must prevail.

The smell of dead fascists rotting is but a momentary annoyance contrasted with democracy's ongoing benefits.

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Please place your own irony tags and consider Clintonian weasel words. Rule by decree? Oh oh I spy a non-democrat.

(h) "National Essential Functions," or "NEFs," means that subset of Government Functions that are necessary to lead and sustain the Nation during a catastrophic emergency and that, therefore, must be supported through COOP and COG capabilities; and

(c) "Continuity of Government," or "COG," means a coordinated effort within the Federal Government's executive branch to ensure that National Essential Functions continue to be performed during a Catastrophic Emergency;

(d) "Continuity of Operations," or "COOP," means an effort within individual executive departments and agencies to ensure that Primary Mission-Essential Functions continue to be performed during a wide range of emergencies, including localized acts of nature, accidents, and technological or attack-related emergencies;

[Aliantha]

You're sounding a bit like the bloke who forgot to take his medication this morning UG.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Actually, I did... but it's diabetes medication. And I took it this afternoon. :p

And it's still only a momentary annoyance.

That's why I'll always like George W. Bush: he eats more un-democrats for breakfast than all his counterparts put together manage all week.