The Israelis must be happy... - Page 2

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-17-2007, 10:36 PM

I don't think so. Democracies behave much better than un-democracies, and they always have -- that's the fundamental thing. The rest is just specific details. Read some history. Then read some more history. A lot of history is the bad behavior of governments and the nations they govern. You don't even have to cover the whole globe, though that breadth of reading will make you well rounded (pun!) -- Europe alone will provide sufficient examples, and so will the Old Testament if you don't want to read ten feet of books.

A nondemocratic government is always at least over-controlling, and even more often, oppressive also, without regard for either human rights or property rights, to a greater or lesser degree, and in about every imaginable mix. The result is that investment and wealth creation languish, the economy underperforms, and misery prevails, particularly so if you lump "lost opportunities" under "misery." This is that 85% of all problems being traceable to top management that tw is always on about.

When the population of a nation is all pretty much miserable, scapegoating foreign entities, outsiders, usually by the central government, is preferable from the government's point of view to being seen itself as the source of miseries. Not any too surprising, is it? And look what's likely to happen then -- and it does, doesn't it? Do not the Arab States attack Israel? Are not these same States well-known examples of not much property rights (going back centuries if not millenia) and miserably underperforming economies and chronic incapability? Do they practice creativity in policymaking, or is uncreativeness the universal situation?

piercehawkeye45 · 06-18-2007, 07:32 AM

I wasn't talking about comparing democratic countries to non-democratic countries but what goes behind the scenes. Nowadays, there are states, puppet states, and rebellious states. The states are the democracies you are talking about and the others are usually the chaotic states. What I was looking for is the relation between the three groups.

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-19-2007, 11:56 AM

I think you miss something important if you don't compare and contrast the democracies with the nondemocracies.

And I give no credence whatsoever to conspiratorial cabals, particularly huge international ones that pull the puppet strings on everything. This kind of romanticism stumbles in that it attributes to malice what is more simply explained by stupidity -- temporary or permanent, it matters little to the turns of history.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-19-2007, 03:51 PM

"Conspiratorial cabals" are what enable people that are already stupid, even if it's just by believing they exist and are blessing their acts.

piercehawkeye45 · 06-19-2007, 06:01 PM

I know the huge differences between democracies and non-democracies but it is very hard to deny the control first-world nations put on third-world nations.

For example, Israel controls Gaza's water, electricity, and food (more or less). This behind the scenes work is what is fueling the fire in Palestine.

06-19-2007, 06:49 PM

When I say that the US should get out of the middle-east, paramount to that statement is our removal from anything to do with this conflict and Israel, other than business.
And that whole relationship needs to be changed, our trade with them needs to be EQUAL or none at all.
No military trade, involvement.

TheMercenary · 06-20-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

...the Palestinians are killing each other.

Yep. Arabs and Persians are doing the same in Iraq.

TheMercenary · 06-20-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Allah Akbar!

Figures.

06-17-2007, 10:36 PM	#16
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I don't think so. Democracies behave much better than un-democracies, and they always have -- that's the fundamental thing. The rest is just specific details. Read some history. Then read some more history. A lot of history is the bad behavior of governments and the nations they govern. You don't even have to cover the whole globe, though that breadth of reading will make you well rounded (pun!) -- Europe alone will provide sufficient examples, and so will the Old Testament if you don't want to read ten feet of books. A nondemocratic government is always at least over-controlling, and even more often, oppressive also, without regard for either human rights or property rights, to a greater or lesser degree, and in about every imaginable mix. The result is that investment and wealth creation languish, the economy underperforms, and misery prevails, particularly so if you lump "lost opportunities" under "misery." This is that 85% of all problems being traceable to top management that tw is always on about. When the population of a nation is all pretty much miserable, scapegoating foreign entities, outsiders, usually by the central government, is preferable from the government's point of view to being seen itself as the source of miseries. Not any too surprising, is it? And look what's likely to happen then -- and it does, doesn't it? Do not the Arab States attack Israel? Are not these same States well-known examples of not much property rights (going back centuries if not millenia) and miserably underperforming economies and chronic incapability? Do they practice creativity in policymaking, or is uncreativeness the universal situation? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 06-17-2007 at 10:44 PM.

06-19-2007, 11:56 AM	#18
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I think you miss something important if you don't compare and contrast the democracies with the nondemocracies. And I give no credence whatsoever to conspiratorial cabals, particularly huge international ones that pull the puppet strings on everything. This kind of romanticism stumbles in that it attributes to malice what is more simply explained by stupidity -- temporary or permanent, it matters little to the turns of history. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

06-19-2007, 03:51 PM	#19
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	"Conspiratorial cabals" are what enable people that are already stupid, even if it's just by believing they exist and are blessing their acts. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-18-2007, 07:32 AM	#17
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I wasn't talking about comparing democratic countries to non-democratic countries but what goes behind the scenes. Nowadays, there are states, puppet states, and rebellious states. The states are the democracies you are talking about and the others are usually the chaotic states. What I was looking for is the relation between the three groups.

06-19-2007, 06:01 PM	#20
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I know the huge differences between democracies and non-democracies but it is very hard to deny the control first-world nations put on third-world nations. For example, Israel controls Gaza's water, electricity, and food (more or less). This behind the scenes work is what is fueling the fire in Palestine.

06-19-2007, 06:49 PM	#21
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	When I say that the US should get out of the middle-east, paramount to that statement is our removal from anything to do with this conflict and Israel, other than business. And that whole relationship needs to be changed, our trade with them needs to be EQUAL or none at all. No military trade, involvement.

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