Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by Rexmons

i personally think they should lock all the guys who did it away until the 12yr old son turns 18, then they should let him execute each and every one of them.

only vengeance could wash away the humiliation he and she have suffered.

[DanaC]

this truly is a heinous crime - i don't know what your laws are concerning juveniles - my opinion would be to hold them in a facility for their age and when they become "adult" age - prosecute them as such.

Personally, I don't think anybody should be tried as an adult for a crime they committed whilst still juvenile.

[smurfalicious]

How about this, which I forgot to include in the original post:

What about the neighbors who heard what was going on and failed to contact authorities? I can understand not wanting to physically intervene for of one's own personal safety, but anyone can call the authorities anonymously. Considering this is a crime-ridden area, and that the authorities were called to that particular area twice daily on average, then it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary to have a police presence show up.

[jester]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Personally, I don't think anybody should be tried as an adult for a crime they committed whilst still juvenile.

i understand that thought - what really gets me though is this was an adult crime - this is not something that probation is going to cure and not all prisons are a cure either, but for extreme crimes sometimes extreme punishments are needed.

[Shawnee123]

There's a whole hell of a lot more going on than a little old criminal behavior. They didn't steal penny candy. Their age became irrelevant after committing such atrocities. It's not like: well, at 18 they magically would have "known better" but since they were only kids they didn't know the magnitude of the situation.

Try them as you would try an 18 year old who committed such crimes.

[glatt]

It's a serious crime for sure, but if you are going to have a distinction in the law between kids and adults, you should always apply that distinction, regardless of the crime. If you don't like it, then get rid of the distinction in the first place.

If there is a legitimate reason for the distinction, that reason doesn't go away just because the crime is a more serious one.

[DanaC]

i understand that thought - what really gets me though is this was an adult crime - this is not something that probation is going to cure and not all prisons are a cure either, but for extreme crimes sometimes extreme punishments are needed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or more of these boys is still too dangerous to be allowed out into society when they are in their forties. I don't actually think extreme punishments help the situation at all. Most important issue for me, is removing dangerous people from mainstream society and keeping them incarcerated until they have been reformed enough to pose no threat.

It's not like: well, at 18 they magically would have "known better" but since they were only kids they didn't know the magnitude of the situation.

It's not about them 'knowing better' or 'not knowing better'. It's about their understanding of the magnitude of their actions. It's about their understanding of the magnitude of the consequences of those actions. It's about the level of their ability to empathise with other human beings, which is undergoing a great deal of its development during those teenage years.

It's entirely possible that they could have got to eighteen and committed this crime, in which case they should be tried as an adult, because society can reasonably expect them to have fully developed the areas of the brain dealing with empathy and self restraint/censorship, by that age. Society can reasonably expect of them a level of understanding of the consequences of their actions appropriate for an adult.

They no doubt understand that what they did was wrong. They may well have some understanding of the consequences of their actions; but it is an understanding appropriate to the brain development of a teenager and that is different to the understanding which an adult has. That doesn't mean they should 'get away with it'. It does, in my view, mean that they should be treated as juveniles within that process and their punishment and/or rehabilitation should take that into account.

[Shawnee123]

It's not like: well, at 18 they magically would have "known better" but since they were only kids they didn't know the magnitude of the situation.

It's not about them 'knowing better' or 'not knowing better'. It's about their understanding of the magnitude of their actions.

Which they did. Sorry, I don't buy that they just weren't "developed" enough to understand. 15, 18, 21. I didn't draw the arbitrary lines in the sand, but I sure know when those lines don't matter.


Geez peeps, they made the mom and son have sex! But I guess they didn't understand. Did their parents not have the Howard Cunningham sex talk with them?

Taylor, wearing dark green shorts and a black Michael Jordan T-shirt, smiled at the cameras outside the police station when reporters asked him whether he was guilty.

Nice kid, just misguided.

[skysidhe]

more doom and gloom

[Shawnee123]

Perhaps they should have baked the kid.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

This thread seems really more to belong in Current Events than Home Base.

[Cicero]

Yeah, Florida. What in the hell is wrong with the people in Florida?!? I didn't used to use generalized negative statements like that...but....I used to edit appeals cases for a publishing company, and I got a very good look at what the people of that great state do. I spent 4 months editing Florida, (and didn't put a dent in it) that's 10 volumes and a high production rate. By the time I was done I decided that Florida needs to just fall off the map. (I'm about to start cussing I think) This is actually average activity for the people in that fabulous state.....Numbers and numbers of rape/murders etc. etc. (you don't even want to know the horrific details).... it should be considered a national crisis. Sometimes I would cry before I left the company parking lot. The judges opinions should have started looking more like evacuation plans. Worse has definitely happened there (a whole lot) and I think if someone actually called a spade a spade, the people of Florida would go on lock down and everyone would be separated from each other just for the general health and well being of the people of the United States. *knee jerk* *twitch* Smurf- read some Florida citators and it will alleviate your shock. Florida....get out of Florida.

[smurfalicious]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Smurf- read some Florida citators and it will alleviate your shock.

yeah, I'm in the legal field... I see a lot... will still always be shocking to me, thought, that people can do such horrible things.

I was born and raised here, and I'm not like that, the people I know aren't like that. This is why I refuse to live in West Palm, and refuse to go there. I travel to Orlando for things I can get in West Palm just because it's West Palm - I'm beginning to think it's worse than Miami.

Originally Posted by smurfalicious

yeah, I'm in the legal field... I see a lot... will still always be shocking to me, thought, that people can do such horrible things.

I was born and raised here, and I'm not like that, the people I know aren't like that. This is why I refuse to live in West Palm, and refuse to go there. I travel to Orlando for things I can get in West Palm just because it's West Palm - I'm beginning to think it's worse than Miami.

One of the major problems with WP is that it is so transient. It causes deep-seated and multi-leveled Issues with that area.
It is a HUGE strain on the infrastructure, leaving those that live there to live on the scraps, existing with crime, within a maze of walls, surrounded by the uber-rich who don't really interact with the actual community. They have a secluded community, within the community, with no trickle-down effect. Hell, most of them are only there a few weeks out of the year, so they have no residency issues, taxes, etc, that they need contribute other than property tax. Which goes into one of the most corrupt systems that one can imagine.
It reminds me a lot of Apartheid S Africa.

[Sundae]

The crimes committed are horrifying, of course. But what separates the lawless from the law-abiding is simply... the law. There is a line drawn in the sand regarding the difference between juveniles and adults, and I do believe that in order to keep the system working then you have to adhere to it.

Of course, they don't believe that in Iran:

Iran has the shameful status of being the world’s last official executioner(1) of child offenders – people convicted of crimes committed when they were under the age of 18. It also holds the macabre distinction of having executed more child offenders than any other country in the world since 1990, according to Amnesty International’s records.(2)

In many cases, child offenders under sentence of death in Iran are kept in prison until they reach 18 before execution. In this period, some win appeals against their conviction. Some have their sentence overturned on appeal and are freed after a retrial. Some are reprieved by the family of the victim in cases of qesas (retribution) crimes and are asked to pay diyeh instead. Some are executed.

Although executions of child offenders are few compared to the total number of executions in Iran, they highlight the government’s disregard for its commitments and obligations under international law, which prohibits in all circumstances the use of the death penalty for child offenders. The executions also gravely undermine the particular obligation that all states have relating to the protection of children – one of the most vulnerable groups in society.

I found that while looking for something else - I'm not suggesting that American justice compares to Iranian, it just interested me.