Finally a Muslim with the guts to say it - Page 2

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-17-2007, 01:38 AM

Except, rkzen, that as a practical matter people behave better if they credit an afterlife -- one with a connection to this life.

It can't help but enlarge one's perspective.

That is why I am not an atheist, nor likely ever to become one. That and it takes just as much mental effort to un-believe as to believe, and for considerably lessened philosophical reward. So I end up figuring atheism for a screwjob.

Happy Monkey · 07-17-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Except, rkzen, that as a practical matter people behave better if they credit an afterlife -- one with a connection to this life.

That's not a reason to believe. That's a reason to trick people you don't trust into believing. If you use that reason for yourself, you are trying to trick yourself into believing.

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-18-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's not a reason to believe. That's a reason to trick people you don't trust into believing. If you use that reason for yourself, you are trying to trick yourself into believing.

Whattaya mean, trick? Why would I try and trick myself, do you think? Do you really think I have to? Frankly, I never worry about whether other people have religious faith or not -- though their behavior can certainly give me a clue. My motivation here is utilitarian. The people who credit an afterlife tend to be better behaved, and are taking a larger perspective rather than staying rooted deep in selfishness. Try looking at it from that viewpoint and see if I ain't right on this one, too.

piercehawkeye45 · 07-18-2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

The people who credit an afterlife tend to be better behaved, and are taking a larger perspective rather than staying rooted deep in selfishness. Try looking at it from that viewpoint and see if I ain't right on this one, too.

How did you get to this, I'm curious?

I have found people who believe in an afterlife and people who don't believe in an afterlife to be perfectly equal morally.

yesman065 · 07-18-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

How did you get to this, I'm curious?

The movie First Knight (1995) with Sean Connery and Richard Gere.
Little antiquated, but...

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-19-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I have found people who believe in an afterlife and people who don't believe in an afterlife to be perfectly equal morally.

In their youth, there's less difference between the two -- in the middle of the population bell-curve, that is. The extremes are always readily distinguishable, though, viz. the religious-nerd contrasted with the gangbanger.

The difference becomes easier to see later in life, in the thirties and forties, again in the middle of the bell curve. The afterlifers try harder to avoid being jerks or worse. That, at any rate, is my observation.

07-17-2007, 01:45 AM

Why? That makes no sense.
This is my only shot, I have to get it right.
Ethics based on "the skydaddy will smite me" is scary to me.
Crisis of faith=guy with no morals.
Mine are based in logic and my own sense of truth.
For me, there just is no reason to believe in a god and no one has ever given me one that makes any sense.

Perry Winkle · 07-17-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

[My morals] are ... snip ... my own sense of truth.

So, basically, something you pulled out of your ass. Just like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, ad nauseum.

07-20-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

So, basically, something you pulled out of your ass. Just like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, ad nauseum.

Nope, mine are tested in the forge of logic. Religon can never say that.

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-17-2007, 02:15 AM

(sigh) Well, rkzen, I just did. Perhaps if you turn the ability at meditation implied by your handle upon it, you might find that sense.

I won't claim that I've personally got, or indeed ever had, it all, but such as I do have seems to me so far sufficient. I do have the hope that I may improve my understanding as my days increase.

I should think a man without morals would never have grounds for a crisis of faith.

The difference between professing a faith versus the kind of superstition you so happily lampoon would be what you do with it -- primarily this would be the difference between being ethical and spending your days in magic rituals alleged to increase your balance of celestial Brownie points.

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-17-2007, 02:16 AM

"Muslin religion" is a particularly interesting if infelicitous typo.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-17-2007, 08:57 AM

Maybe it wasn't a random typo, maybe God made her type that.

TheMercenary · 07-18-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

"Muslin religion" is a particularly interesting if infelicitous typo.

A true man of the cloth.

Cloud · 07-17-2007, 09:12 AM

(whistles nonchalantly). I have no idea what you all are on about. I never make typos! (cough)

xoxoxoBruce · 07-17-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

(cough)

What was that jingling sound?

07-17-2007, 01:38 AM	#1
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Except, rkzen, that as a practical matter people behave better if they credit an afterlife -- one with a connection to this life. It can't help but enlarge one's perspective. That is why I am not an atheist, nor likely ever to become one. That and it takes just as much mental effort to un-believe as to believe, and for considerably lessened philosophical reward. So I end up figuring atheism for a screwjob. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

07-17-2007, 02:15 AM	#10
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	(sigh) Well, rkzen, I just did. Perhaps if you turn the ability at meditation implied by your handle upon it, you might find that sense. I won't claim that I've personally got, or indeed ever had, it all, but such as I do have seems to me so far sufficient. I do have the hope that I may improve my understanding as my days increase. I should think a man without morals would never have grounds for a crisis of faith. The difference between professing a faith versus the kind of superstition you so happily lampoon would be what you do with it -- primarily this would be the difference between being ethical and spending your days in magic rituals alleged to increase your balance of celestial Brownie points. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

07-17-2007, 08:57 AM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Maybe it wasn't a random typo, maybe God made her type that. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-17-2007, 09:12 AM	#14
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	(whistles nonchalantly). I have no idea what you all are on about. I never make typos! (cough) __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!" Last edited by Cloud; 07-17-2007 at 01:43 PM.

07-17-2007, 01:45 AM	#7
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Why? That makes no sense. This is my only shot, I have to get it right. Ethics based on "the skydaddy will smite me" is scary to me. Crisis of faith=guy with no morals. Mine are based in logic and my own sense of truth. For me, there just is no reason to believe in a god and no one has ever given me one that makes any sense.

07-17-2007, 02:16 AM	#11
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	"Muslin religion" is a particularly interesting if infelicitous typo.

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