Brit doctors: don't treat people who make bad choices or get old - Page 2

Clodfobble · 01-27-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

But, didn't they pay for it once already with their taxes?

Well sure, that's what they were told. But still, it's probably cheaper for UT to just send them the money to get treated in Britain rather than flying them here first.

monster · 01-27-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

But, didn't they pay for it once already with their taxes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Well sure, that's what they were told.

Um, no, but thanks for playing.

NHS care is supposed to cover standard basic medical care. Procedures which are unnecessary or against medical advice do not fall within this remit. If an alky needs a liver transplant, they must stop drinking. Not just because they are undeserving and should not get a chance to trash a new one, but how in the hell does the transplant stand a chance of working of the poor organ is not only assailed by the recipients antibodies but also a slew of toxins.....

Ah fuck it. I'm done. Y'all have the healthcare you deserve. It sucks, in my opinion, but then most of you haven't experienced anything else so you don't know what your missing, and I'm lucky enough to be able to afford reasonable insurance. Sucks to be poor here, though, I would imagine. Ignorance truly is bliss sometimes.

lumberjim · 01-27-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Sucks to be poor here, though, I would imagine.

yeah....don't be poor. poor is bad, m'kay?

TheMercenary · 01-29-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Um, no, but thanks for playing.

NHS care is supposed to cover standard basic medical care. Procedures which are unnecessary or against medical advice do not fall within this remit. If an alky needs a liver transplant, they must stop drinking. Not just because they are undeserving and should not get a chance to trash a new one, but how in the hell does the transplant stand a chance of working of the poor organ is not only assailed by the recipients antibodies but also a slew of toxins.....

No different from the current system of insurance. Not only do transplant patients have to stop drinking, they have to stop smoking and eat correctly.

HungLikeJesus · 01-29-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No different from the current system of insurance. Not only do transplant patients have to stop drinking, they have to stop smoking and eat correctly.

By 'eat correctly' you mean, knife in left hand and fork in right hand, elbows off the table, etc.?

That seems harsh.

BigV · 01-29-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

By 'eat correctly' you mean, knife in left hand and fork in right hand, elbows off the table, etc.?

That seems harsh.

Are you left handed?

DanaC · 01-28-2008, 05:48 AM

There have always been some procedures and areas of medical care which have required payment from the patient: dentistry, even on NHS incurs a charge; unnecessary treatments are not provided on the NHS. That said, I would point out that even cosmetic treatment is provided on the NHS if it can be shown to be of enough benefit to the patient and if the lack of it can be reasonably surmised to be damaging to their physical or mental well-being. For example, I had real problems with my teeth, they were crooked and the enamel was porous so I could never make them look clean no matter how conscientious I was about dental care. I was given veneers for upper and lower front teeth (all bar the molars) partly because it was medically advantageous and partly because it was affecting my self confidence. If I'd had that done at my own cost it would have been several thousand pounds. Because I was unemployed and therefore able to claim free dental care it cost me nothing. If I had been working it would have cost me about £400 on NHS. Still significantly less than private.

There are some procedures and treatments that it is not sensible to allow to certain patients. It's about resources, but it's also about good medicine. Like monster says, giving a new liver to someone who refuses to stop drinking isn't just wasteful, it's medically unsound as it's highly unlikely to work. In terms of age, there comes a point where you are trying to hold back the tide...at that point it can be reasonably argued in many cases, that the medically sound tactic is to make that patient as comfortable as possible, rather than attempting to 'cure' them.

Making them comfortable, by the way, includes things like the provision of oxygen canisters and a variety of inhalers, all of which the patient is provided free of charge after the age of 65, and prior to that at the standard prescription rate of £6.75.

The NHS has been wonderful to me. It's been wonderful to my Dad. It's been wonderful to numerous friends and family members. It ain't perfect, but the cost equation in treatment rarely comes up, and that's the way it should be at the patient's end of things.

Undertoad · 01-28-2008, 09:38 AM

Turns out it wasn't a necessary life-threatening sort of thing.

Also I offered her a replacement medication that would have been an adequate substitute.

Flint · 01-28-2008, 09:47 AM

You know, that's the problem with you. It's unfair because nobody can say anything bad about you, because you're such a nice guy. Jerk.
__________________
Edit: btw, nice putting this in "Current Events" so you didn't have to choose between "Health" and "Politics"

Undertoad · 01-28-2008, 01:27 PM

See post #10

Quote:

Originally Posted by UT

Actually I believe that only occasionally are there cases where people are flatly denied coverage by their insurer, and when they do, it's big news. Somebody died of it recently.

That "somebody" was Natalie Sarkisyan.

Flint · 01-28-2008, 01:31 PM

Honestly, I just thought it was weird that I happened to recieve this particular invitation in my inbox, today.
But it does show that the problem exists, and is a subject that needs dealing with, in our present system.

Undertoad · 01-28-2008, 02:01 PM

One person is truly neglected and dies - that's a mistake, not a problem. There are 300 million people here and we will need to see more cases of it before proclaiming it a systemic problem. Meanwhile, this one case sparks ethical seminars and we all get a chance to put the magnifying glass on it.

Flint · 02-07-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Meanwhile, this one case sparks ethical seminars and we all get a chance to put the magnifying glass on it.

Quote:

Due to over-capacity audience yesterday and by request of numerous employees and physicians, this seminar will be offered again on __________, 2008 at 12 noon. Some physicians who attended yesterday indicated that Directors and Vice Presidents would benefit significantly from hearing the presentation. Additionally, yesterday a physician extended an invitation to The Center for Healthcare Ethics to present this to the greater __________ business community. To Assure a Seat, Register Immediately.

classicman · 01-29-2008, 08:21 AM

not to me xoB - I recognize that I have a job and represent the company that I work for, but I am not that company. If I say something stupid or make an offhand remark, it shouldn't be assumed that the entire organization agrees.

TheMercenary · 01-29-2008, 03:11 PM

If you switch it will be like having a stranger.

01-28-2008, 09:47 AM	#9
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	You know, that's the problem with you. It's unfair because nobody can say anything bad about you, because you're such a nice guy. Jerk. __________________ Edit: btw, nice putting this in "Current Events" so you didn't have to choose between "Health" and "Politics" __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 01-28-2008 at 09:57 AM.

01-28-2008, 01:31 PM	#11
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Honestly, I just thought it was weird that I happened to recieve this particular invitation in my inbox, today. But it does show that the problem exists, and is a subject that needs dealing with, in our present system. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

01-29-2008, 08:21 AM	#14
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	not to me xoB - I recognize that I have a job and represent the company that I work for, but I am not that company. If I say something stupid or make an offhand remark, it shouldn't be assumed that the entire organization agrees. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

01-29-2008, 03:11 PM	#15
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	If you switch it will be like having a stranger. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

01-28-2008, 05:48 AM	#7
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	There have always been some procedures and areas of medical care which have required payment from the patient: dentistry, even on NHS incurs a charge; unnecessary treatments are not provided on the NHS. That said, I would point out that even cosmetic treatment is provided on the NHS if it can be shown to be of enough benefit to the patient and if the lack of it can be reasonably surmised to be damaging to their physical or mental well-being. For example, I had real problems with my teeth, they were crooked and the enamel was porous so I could never make them look clean no matter how conscientious I was about dental care. I was given veneers for upper and lower front teeth (all bar the molars) partly because it was medically advantageous and partly because it was affecting my self confidence. If I'd had that done at my own cost it would have been several thousand pounds. Because I was unemployed and therefore able to claim free dental care it cost me nothing. If I had been working it would have cost me about £400 on NHS. Still significantly less than private. There are some procedures and treatments that it is not sensible to allow to certain patients. It's about resources, but it's also about good medicine. Like monster says, giving a new liver to someone who refuses to stop drinking isn't just wasteful, it's medically unsound as it's highly unlikely to work. In terms of age, there comes a point where you are trying to hold back the tide...at that point it can be reasonably argued in many cases, that the medically sound tactic is to make that patient as comfortable as possible, rather than attempting to 'cure' them. Making them comfortable, by the way, includes things like the provision of oxygen canisters and a variety of inhalers, all of which the patient is provided free of charge after the age of 65, and prior to that at the standard prescription rate of £6.75. The NHS has been wonderful to me. It's been wonderful to my Dad. It's been wonderful to numerous friends and family members. It ain't perfect, but the cost equation in treatment rarely comes up, and that's the way it should be at the patient's end of things.

01-28-2008, 09:38 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Turns out it wasn't a necessary life-threatening sort of thing. Also I offered her a replacement medication that would have been an adequate substitute.

01-28-2008, 02:01 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	One person is truly neglected and dies - that's a mistake, not a problem. There are 300 million people here and we will need to see more cases of it before proclaiming it a systemic problem. Meanwhile, this one case sparks ethical seminars and we all get a chance to put the magnifying glass on it.

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