Urine tests for welfare recipients - Page 2

lookout123 · 02-11-2008, 11:17 AM

What you do on your own time can be the business of your employers. I know my industry is a bad example but I'll use it anyway. They know pretty much everything about me. Hell, YOU as a consumer can pull up my file on the industry website and check out my credit, employment, discipline, and education history. The national regulatory associations keep notes in my file about my time spent coaching kids' soccer. If an anonymous report pops up saying I spend a lot of time in the casino I will be flagged for special attention. Why? To make sure that I don't have some outside problem that might lead me to start screwing people over and taking their money. Extreme? Yes, but it is an example of why it is in the employer's best interest to keep tabs on certain behaviors.

Like it or not, a good job is not a right - it is a privilege, and there just might be some restrictions. You don't have to accept the restrictions. You can turn the job down. Same with the welfare recipient. If they don't want to take a drug test - they can quit accepting the check.

icileparadise · 02-13-2008, 08:17 PM

As being a Professional Driver I have just yesterday been through a medical examination by a Swiss Medical specialist and I have never had so many bodily proddings and soundbeats in my life. He put me through ten thoracic stethescope soundings front and back like I have never had in my life. Plus urine and blood checks, eyesight, hearing and balance and reflexes height weight etc.... And this is for all proffessional drivers from trains to trucks. I think it's sound practice. I passed with excellent colours if you want to know. How many people drive *dui* I'll let you guess.

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 11:22 AM

Yes it CAN be. No it should NOT be. Just because employers can, will, or want to do this doesn't make it any less an invasion of personal privacy. I am also not convinced that it isn't health insurance companies who pressure for this sort of spying. Eh, what do I care, I have nothing to hide? True for most of us...but where does it end?

lookout123 · 02-11-2008, 11:30 AM

How is it an invasion of privacy? You are asking them for something. They are asking you for information they feel is important before providing you with that something. You can choose not to submit.

No one is holding you down and telling you to piss in a cup.

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 11:56 AM

'ere

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 12:06 PM

Large people might steal to fund their dorito habit. People with chronic illness might steal to fund their needed meds. A sex addict might steal to fund his or her need for prostitutes willing to spank them with used tires. A woman with a sick kid might steal to get the best medical care for her child. A pet lover might steal so they can build a kennel to board all the strays. Where does it end again?

In other words, I don't find your argument very compelling. It is what it is, but my very humble opinion is to stay out of my life unless I fuck up, Big Brother, but thanks for trying to protect us all.

lookout123 · 02-11-2008, 12:14 PM

the difference between your examples and the others is that there are actually profiles that indicate behavior A has an increased correlation with outcome B, so it is something to watch.

I didn't say I LIKE it, I am just pointing out that no one is forcing you to take the job or the money. You can say no. Just be aware that if you say no, they should be able to withhold the job or money. IMO.

Then again, I'm the guy that started my own company cuz I was tired of their BS.

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 12:43 PM

We mostly agree, cousin: we agree that it is done and we don't like it.

However, I could go a bit further and point out that there could probably be more studies (profiles) done as to what motivates someone to rip off a company: drug and alcohol addiction just gets the attention as the most prominent, and the one most looked at by insurance companies as well. For all we REALLY know, every single perv who likes to be beat with rubber tires by prostitutes could be 100% predisposed to steal money to support that habit.

lookout123 · 02-11-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

drug and alcohol addiction just gets the attention as the most prominent

My guess is that gambling ranks higher. but drug and alcohol abuse are easier to spot. Plug the holes you can, you know?

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 12:48 PM

Well, if you believe in my health/life insurance theory, gambling doesn't usually result in poor health (unless Guido nails your knees to the floor) therefore negating the company's interest in that activity until something actually does get stolen.

lookout123 · 02-11-2008, 12:52 PM

health/insurance companies working with employers for that purpose? nah. Do you know why your insurance choices change every couple years?

The broker for the big plans makes HUGE money in the year that a contract is signed with an employer. Unfortunately the companies aren't very smart and they pay very very small trails. The BROKER creates teh relationship with the employer and then comes back every year to review the arrangement. It costs the company nothing and the broker makes full commission every year. The insurance company doesn't actually have much to do with the employers they work with.

TheMercenary · 02-11-2008, 02:34 PM

Bottom line, you don't want to piss in the cup quit. Employers have every right to secure their job place and protect the public from errors that could be caused by drug use in the work place.

Spexxvet · 02-11-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Bottom line, you don't want to piss in the cup quit. Employers have every right to secure their job place and protect the public from errors that could be caused by drug use in the work place.

So they should give an IQ test, too? How about a driving test? Test for alcohol? Diabetics have been known to act eratically if their sugar sky rockets - better get a hemogloin a1-c on everybody. And how can you test for asshole?

What I do in my spare time is none of my employer's business until it effects my performance at work.

TheMercenary · 02-11-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So they should give an IQ test, too? How about a driving test? Test for alcohol? Diabetics have been known to act eratically if their sugar sky rockets - better get a hemogloin a1-c on everybody. And how can you test for asshole?

What I do in my spare time is none of my employer's business until it effects my performance at work.

Not according to many employers.

Shawnee123 · 02-11-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Bottom line, you don't want to piss in the cup quit. Employers have every right to secure their job place and protect the public from errors that could be caused by drug use in the work place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So they should give an IQ test, too? How about a driving test? Test for alcohol? Diabetics have been known to act eratically if their sugar sky rockets - better get a hemogloin a1-c on everybody. And how can you test for asshole?

What I do in my spare time is none of my employer's business until it effects my performance at work.

And I did once. Got injured because some slack-jaw built a unit wrong and it got hot and burned me as I tested it. Some tested units could have killed me. Went for treatment to be told I needed to pee in a cup. I refused (and not because I wouldn't have passed.) Fuck them. DId they test slack-jaw? Where's the IQ test? Your directive, then, is moot to me.

02-11-2008, 11:17 AM	#1
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	What you do on your own time can be the business of your employers. I know my industry is a bad example but I'll use it anyway. They know pretty much everything about me. Hell, YOU as a consumer can pull up my file on the industry website and check out my credit, employment, discipline, and education history. The national regulatory associations keep notes in my file about my time spent coaching kids' soccer. If an anonymous report pops up saying I spend a lot of time in the casino I will be flagged for special attention. Why? To make sure that I don't have some outside problem that might lead me to start screwing people over and taking their money. Extreme? Yes, but it is an example of why it is in the employer's best interest to keep tabs on certain behaviors. Like it or not, a good job is not a right - it is a privilege, and there just might be some restrictions. You don't have to accept the restrictions. You can turn the job down. Same with the welfare recipient. If they don't want to take a drug test - they can quit accepting the check. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-13-2008, 08:17 PM	#2
icileparadise Coronation Incarnate Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Swiss Mountains Posts: 96	The urine tests As being a Professional Driver I have just yesterday been through a medical examination by a Swiss Medical specialist and I have never had so many bodily proddings and soundbeats in my life. He put me through ten thoracic stethescope soundings front and back like I have never had in my life. Plus urine and blood checks, eyesight, hearing and balance and reflexes height weight etc.... And this is for all proffessional drivers from trains to trucks. I think it's sound practice. I passed with excellent colours if you want to know. How many people drive dui I'll let you guess.

02-11-2008, 11:30 AM	#4
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	How is it an invasion of privacy? You are asking them for something. They are asking you for information they feel is important before providing you with that something. You can choose not to submit. No one is holding you down and telling you to piss in a cup. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-11-2008, 12:14 PM	#7
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	the difference between your examples and the others is that there are actually profiles that indicate behavior A has an increased correlation with outcome B, so it is something to watch. I didn't say I LIKE it, I am just pointing out that no one is forcing you to take the job or the money. You can say no. Just be aware that if you say no, they should be able to withhold the job or money. IMO. Then again, I'm the guy that started my own company cuz I was tired of their BS. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-11-2008, 12:52 PM	#11
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	health/insurance companies working with employers for that purpose? nah. Do you know why your insurance choices change every couple years? The broker for the big plans makes HUGE money in the year that a contract is signed with an employer. Unfortunately the companies aren't very smart and they pay very very small trails. The BROKER creates teh relationship with the employer and then comes back every year to review the arrangement. It costs the company nothing and the broker makes full commission every year. The insurance company doesn't actually have much to do with the employers they work with. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-11-2008, 11:22 AM	#3
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Yes it CAN be. No it should NOT be. Just because employers can, will, or want to do this doesn't make it any less an invasion of personal privacy. I am also not convinced that it isn't health insurance companies who pressure for this sort of spying. Eh, what do I care, I have nothing to hide? True for most of us...but where does it end?

02-11-2008, 11:56 AM	#5
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	'ere

02-11-2008, 12:06 PM	#6
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Large people might steal to fund their dorito habit. People with chronic illness might steal to fund their needed meds. A sex addict might steal to fund his or her need for prostitutes willing to spank them with used tires. A woman with a sick kid might steal to get the best medical care for her child. A pet lover might steal so they can build a kennel to board all the strays. Where does it end again? In other words, I don't find your argument very compelling. It is what it is, but my very humble opinion is to stay out of my life unless I fuck up, Big Brother, but thanks for trying to protect us all.

02-11-2008, 12:43 PM	#8
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	We mostly agree, cousin: we agree that it is done and we don't like it. However, I could go a bit further and point out that there could probably be more studies (profiles) done as to what motivates someone to rip off a company: drug and alcohol addiction just gets the attention as the most prominent, and the one most looked at by insurance companies as well. For all we REALLY know, every single perv who likes to be beat with rubber tires by prostitutes could be 100% predisposed to steal money to support that habit.

02-11-2008, 12:48 PM	#10
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Well, if you believe in my health/life insurance theory, gambling doesn't usually result in poor health (unless Guido nails your knees to the floor) therefore negating the company's interest in that activity until something actually does get stolen.

02-11-2008, 02:34 PM	#12
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Bottom line, you don't want to piss in the cup quit. Employers have every right to secure their job place and protect the public from errors that could be caused by drug use in the work place. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

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