Oil jumps above $100 on refinery outage

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And why is that Idiot? because the US workers unions made it so. The industry was fucked by the unions, hence they outsourced. Pensions, insurance, required union work conditions have all contributed.

More hate? So union workers created all that stifled innovation for 30 years in GM? Did you ever work in a GM plant? I did. How I could get work accomplished? I found a union worker who took the proper attitude (completely with an arm gesture). Problem solved immediately.

Another example: a pipe fitter probably forgot to tighten a fitting. Materials flowed through that pipe until cooling finally created a leak. The room filled with a dangerous gas. Another pipe fitter held his breath, ran in, cut off the flow, and retreated safely. (I asked him if he was crazy.)

Somehow I got called into a meeting by the plant manager. She had maybe 50 people in the room to discuss the event. Obvious from irrelevant questions was that neither she nor her assistants knew even what the material was used for - how the work gets done. She could not ask a single useful question. But a most damning observation? Neither pipe fitter was there. Nobody who knew what happened was present. No problem. She was an MBA. She conducted a meeting. Therefore she had everything under control.

So many people discussing what none knew anything about? Clearly another example of unions destroying America? Yes, where contempt replaces logic.

TheMercenary, how many more will your hate attack? When an adversarial union exists, then look years (decades) earlier for an adversarial management that too often comes from business schools, has no idea how the work gets done, and who must hire more subordinates.

Legacy costs. GM cars cost more due to legacy costs? Reality: the day that union worker requires, those pension funds should be fully funded. But 1990s GM cars had so many more pistons (were so anti-America) that GM management stopped funding those pension funds. Now GM, et al owe $7 billion to the pension funds. GM blames legacy costs. What anti-Americans let GM forget - they stopped funding those pension funds so claim profits in the 1990s. But again, this is blamed completely on the unions - according to TheMercenary. Hate trumps facts?

How was 1981 Ford saved from bankruptcy? First the MBA was removed - Henry Ford. Then Ford eliminated management. 48 layers of management were reduced to 5. No union workers had to be eliminated. Instead, Ford eliminated the only reason for their problems - management. So Ford Motor went from near bankruptcy to record profits between 1981 and 1990.

When unions get blamed as TheMercenary posts, well, the accuser is better replaced by an immigrant – to make a better America.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

When unions get blamed as TheMercenary posts, well, the accuser is better replaced by an immigrant – to make a better America.

May you get what you wish for and may it bankrupt you Idiot.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

May you get what you wish for and may it bankrupt you Idiot.

Why not just call me niger? That is your intent.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

Why not just call me niger? That is your intent.

As I have already stated. I find the term offensive and shall not call you anything but what I find you to be here. Idiot. I know nothing of your origins. Are you an illegal immigrant?

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I find the term offensive and shall not call you anything but what I find you to be here.

Well at least you don't consider me a niger. I was worried you might judge me by the color of my letters.

[Undertoad]

[TheMercenary]

That was the first thing I thought of when he wrote that last night.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Teh Internet culture. Let me show you it.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by sycamore

Gas went up this afternoon from $2.799 to $2.989. If it stays up, I'll go through my gas budget before the end of next week.

The Aveo is still calling me...but I'll only take a yellow one.

I heard a story yesterday about why diesel fuel is so expensive and how it will not go down any time soon. But apparently, the US is starting to warm up to it and it will become more popular by the end of the decade.

I spent yesterday at a conference on alternative transportation fuels from cellulosic materials.. Speakers included Steve Andrews (co-founder of Association for the Study of Peak Oil), some forestry people, a representative from the Colorado Governor's Energy Office, two US Senators (Salazar and Allard), and others.

They did a pretty good job of convincing me that world oil production is very near the peak, which means that production will level off, then begin to drop, even as demand is increasing.

When this happens gas will get very expensive. I'm seriously considering getting rid of my truck (which gets 18 to 20 mpg), because it won't be worth much when gas gets scarce.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

They did a pretty good job of convincing me that world oil production is very near the peak, which means that production will level off, then begin to drop, even as demand is increasing.

But what's a realistic timeline for that? 3 years? 15 years? More specifically, let's say one is in the market to replace a vehicle in the next few months. Aside from the warm fuzzies one gets from getting a hybrid, right now it is a mathematical fact that hybrid cars do not make up their initial price difference in gas savings unless you drive a lot more than we do. Obviously there will be a tipping point where this will change, but it would be nice to have an idea roughly when that will be. We do tend to drive our cars until every last ounce of usefulness has been gotten out of them (this current replacement is only a necessity because it doesn't have enough seating,) so it's likely we'll still be driving it in ten years.

[HungLikeJesus]

We won't know we've passed the peak until we've been past it for a while (a few years). We may have already passed it, or it could happen between now and 2015. A downturn in world economies will delay it for a time.

Alaska peaked in 1988; it is now producing at half the 1988 levels. North America, Europe and Asia have all peaked. Saudi Arabia is expected to plateau within a few years (Sadad al Husseini).

If you buy an SUV, you can make the peak come sooner.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Alaska peaked in 1988; it is now producing at half the 1988 levels.

Not counting ANWAR, right?

[elSicomoro]

Based on what I've read about ANWR though, it would only put a mild bump in our supply, depending on how the oil was used.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

So union workers created all that stifled innovation for 30 years in GM?

Despite tw's crazy rants about pre-WWII fuel injection technology being so wonderful, he's right on the money about the unions and their relationship with the manufacturers.

The car company would come to the bargaining table and say, we'll give you a little bit now, but we'll take care of you when you retire. But when the contract was signed, they let the promises become the problem of the management that followed them, when they retired with millions in cash and stock options.

Most of the work rules, on which the companies had plenty of input and agreed to, are enforcement of safety procedures. Many of them are just following federal law that would be ignored without the unions. Even with them, too many people die or are disabled by unsafe work practices in pursuit of the almighty buck.

Chinese workers are cheap and they are dieing by the thousands, to keep walmart rolling in cash.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But what's a realistic timeline for that? 3 years? 15 years? More specifically, let's say one is in the market to replace a vehicle in the next few months. Aside from the warm fuzzies one gets from getting a hybrid, right now it is a mathematical fact that hybrid cars do not make up their initial price difference in gas savings unless you drive a lot more than we do. Obviously there will be a tipping point where this will change, but it would be nice to have an idea roughly when that will be. We do tend to drive our cars until every last ounce of usefulness has been gotten out of them (this current replacement is only a necessity because it doesn't have enough seating,) so it's likely we'll still be driving it in ten years.

Gas prices might reach as high $4/gallon this year. I wouldn't expect any thinking person to buy a vehicle that gets less than about 27 miles per gallon, without a really good reason.

I've had my Insight for 5 years this month and have driven it about 44,000 miles. Compared to a car getting 30 miles per gallon, I've saved about 800 gallons. Compared to my Ranger, I've saved about 1800 gallons.

That's not a lot, but I don't really care if gas goes to $8 or $10 per gallon. It just doesn't affect me much anymore.

If you're getting a car that you'll drive for the next 10 years, I think a hybrid will make economic sense, with gasoline at $4/gallon.