The downside of exceptionalism - Page 2

lookout123 · 08-26-2008, 05:32 PM

sweet. sportsmanship is something that can be carried and used throughout life. a good through-ball while impressive on the soccer field doesn't really mean much in day to day living.

I was just kidding about the level of physical exertion in baseball, honest. please don't hit me with a bat.

BigV · 08-26-2008, 05:37 PM

you crack me up!

Aliantha · 08-26-2008, 05:48 PM

I wonder what happens to the players who are good batsmen and never strike out regardless of who's pitching...

lookout123 · 08-26-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I wonder what happens to the players who are good batsmen and never strike out regardless of who's pitching...

they eventually meet a nine year old they can't hit until their parents fix it for them.

Aliantha · 08-26-2008, 06:05 PM

Exactly.

If these teams had a good coach they might say something to this effect in my mind.

"OK team, we know this is going to be a tough one. Little Johnny over there has one awesome arm. Maybe we'll even see him in the majors one day, but for now, it's our job to try and win this game somehow. Now I know it might be tough, but he's their only great player, whereas we're a team. A T.E.A.M right? Maybe we wont get a run on the board, but if we work as a team, maybe we can stop them getting a run either. Maybe we can't pitch him out - although I think Little Jimmy is a great pitcher too - but if we work together, we can field them out right? RIGHT? So who's with me???"

Where's the challenge in teaching kids that if you can't beat someone the way you usually do, you just give up. It doesn't encourage broader thinking and it doesn't teach kids about teamwork. Only that individual brilliance can't be beaten in a team situation. If your kid's in a team sport, they need to learn team work. I think that's generally the point.

SamIam · 08-26-2008, 06:32 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Lookout. And BigV, I'm glad I was able to bring some amusement to your day.

footfootfoot · 08-26-2008, 08:19 PM

Lookout,
I can relate to your feelings about parents and their ego involvement in their kid's sports-and-everything-else lives. There are parents who understand what the real value of the game and the awards are about and there are the parents who are in it for the power and prestige.

I'm sure you saw that in the service; the disparity between the people who will use the system to further their own goals and the ones who honor the spirit of their oath.

It is a shame that parents will use children as pawns to further their political and financial goals, but those people are like weeds. It's a never ending struggle; at best you keep them at bay, but there will be a couple of kids you will nurture and help grow and impress with your values and they'll benefit from your effort, however uninspiring it may seem to you at the time.

If you think back to all the people who've helped form your character over the years, I bet very few of them even know how much they meant to you.

So, don't let the bastards grind you down.

(but for the record the bastards are asswipes)

piercehawkeye45 · 08-26-2008, 10:32 PM

40 mph? If it was 55-60 mph I could maybe see a problem but 40?

When I was 9 (4th grade) I was in a league with 6th graders and some of them threw in the mid to high 50s.

I think this is just plain stupid...

Troubleshooter · 08-27-2008, 07:58 AM

Once everybody is special, nobody is...

Shawnee123 · 08-27-2008, 08:09 AM

I was very proud of my younger brother this summer. He coached his 8 year old daughter's baseball team. He said at the onset he wants them to enjoy themselves, and perhaps walk away with some knowledge of the basics. He accomplished that, and got kudos from many parents for his approach. Believe it or not, he did encounter a team that was all about winning (they're EIGHT!) At a couple points, kids would be away on family vacation, and he would bring my 6 year old niece and a couple other kids up from "T-ball" to play. Yes, my friends, the 6 year olds were going to the Show!

That to me is what sports for the younger crowd are all about. If the child finds he has mad skillz and, most importantly, enjoys playing then he now has yet another option in his quest for who he wants to be.

But if Johnny stands in left field catching butterflies and documenting sightings for his journal, that's OK too.

Not every child is cut out for sports, just as every child isn't cut out to be a rocket scientist. My family is all about sports and very competitive, but my brother didn't bring that to his coaching experience: Molly could be Molly and Sherry could be Sherry and no one was expected to be anything they were not...just get out there and see if you like it!

On the other hand, I feel we should encourage kids who show a real aptitude, whether it's on the field or in a classroom, but not at the exclusion of kids who just enjoy participating.

And if Johnny is in High School and is still chasing butterflies in left field, perhaps Johnny should be allowed to pursue other interests.

HungLikeJesus · 08-27-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

...

That to me is what sports for the younger crowd are all about.
...

But as an adult, it's all about the money.

Shawnee123 · 08-27-2008, 08:26 AM

And that's too bad. True, but too bad.

lookout123 · 08-27-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Not every child is cut out for sports, just as every child isn't cut out to be a rocket scientist.

I'm trying to teach Lil Lookout that one right now. Actually I've been trying but with only mild success up until this week. He came home in absolute awe of a girl in his class. He saw her drawings and he spoke about them for two days straight (might have something to do with the girl too). Her dogs look like dogs, her houses look real, her trees... you get the point. That night he pulled his own drawings out and just set them on the table. Mrs L promptly walked by and said, "wow, that's a nice shark you drew." Nice praise, but the problem is that he drew a California Sea Lion, not a shark.

That led to some tears about how he stinks at drawing and there's something wrong with him. Now up to this point if you handed the kid a pencil and blank paper, within minutes you'd see a very detailed soccer field and a game appear before your eyes. He isn't the most creative kid - his mother says he gets his one track mind from me.

Anyway, it really upset him that he was deficient in this area. I think it finally clicked for him when I asked if the girl could score a 30 foot goal with either foot. He quickly answered, "no, she doesn't like soccer but she probably could if she'd try". *dingdingding* By the end of it he had accepted if not embraced the idea that she excelled at art while he did at soccer because that is what they were interested in enough to practice in their free time.

i still think the whole thing was about the girl, though.

Flint · 08-27-2008, 10:40 AM

Her tits look like tits...

lookout123 · 08-27-2008, 10:47 AM

ah-tah

08-26-2008, 05:32 PM	#1
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	sweet. sportsmanship is something that can be carried and used throughout life. a good through-ball while impressive on the soccer field doesn't really mean much in day to day living. I was just kidding about the level of physical exertion in baseball, honest. please don't hit me with a bat. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-26-2008, 05:37 PM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	you crack me up! __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

08-26-2008, 05:48 PM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I wonder what happens to the players who are good batsmen and never strike out regardless of who's pitching... __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-26-2008, 06:05 PM	#5
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Exactly. If these teams had a good coach they might say something to this effect in my mind. "OK team, we know this is going to be a tough one. Little Johnny over there has one awesome arm. Maybe we'll even see him in the majors one day, but for now, it's our job to try and win this game somehow. Now I know it might be tough, but he's their only great player, whereas we're a team. A T.E.A.M right? Maybe we wont get a run on the board, but if we work as a team, maybe we can stop them getting a run either. Maybe we can't pitch him out - although I think Little Jimmy is a great pitcher too - but if we work together, we can field them out right? RIGHT? So who's with me???" Where's the challenge in teaching kids that if you can't beat someone the way you usually do, you just give up. It doesn't encourage broader thinking and it doesn't teach kids about teamwork. Only that individual brilliance can't be beaten in a team situation. If your kid's in a team sport, they need to learn team work. I think that's generally the point. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-26-2008, 08:19 PM	#7
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Lookout, I can relate to your feelings about parents and their ego involvement in their kid's sports-and-everything-else lives. There are parents who understand what the real value of the game and the awards are about and there are the parents who are in it for the power and prestige. I'm sure you saw that in the service; the disparity between the people who will use the system to further their own goals and the ones who honor the spirit of their oath. It is a shame that parents will use children as pawns to further their political and financial goals, but those people are like weeds. It's a never ending struggle; at best you keep them at bay, but there will be a couple of kids you will nurture and help grow and impress with your values and they'll benefit from your effort, however uninspiring it may seem to you at the time. If you think back to all the people who've helped form your character over the years, I bet very few of them even know how much they meant to you. So, don't let the bastards grind you down. (but for the record the bastards are asswipes) __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

08-26-2008, 06:32 PM	#6
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Thanks for the explanation, Lookout. And BigV, I'm glad I was able to bring some amusement to your day.

08-26-2008, 10:32 PM	#8
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	40 mph? If it was 55-60 mph I could maybe see a problem but 40? When I was 9 (4th grade) I was in a league with 6th graders and some of them threw in the mid to high 50s. I think this is just plain stupid... __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

08-27-2008, 07:58 AM	#9
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Once everybody is special, nobody is... __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

08-27-2008, 08:09 AM	#10
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I was very proud of my younger brother this summer. He coached his 8 year old daughter's baseball team. He said at the onset he wants them to enjoy themselves, and perhaps walk away with some knowledge of the basics. He accomplished that, and got kudos from many parents for his approach. Believe it or not, he did encounter a team that was all about winning (they're EIGHT!) At a couple points, kids would be away on family vacation, and he would bring my 6 year old niece and a couple other kids up from "T-ball" to play. Yes, my friends, the 6 year olds were going to the Show! That to me is what sports for the younger crowd are all about. If the child finds he has mad skillz and, most importantly, enjoys playing then he now has yet another option in his quest for who he wants to be. But if Johnny stands in left field catching butterflies and documenting sightings for his journal, that's OK too. Not every child is cut out for sports, just as every child isn't cut out to be a rocket scientist. My family is all about sports and very competitive, but my brother didn't bring that to his coaching experience: Molly could be Molly and Sherry could be Sherry and no one was expected to be anything they were not...just get out there and see if you like it! On the other hand, I feel we should encourage kids who show a real aptitude, whether it's on the field or in a classroom, but not at the exclusion of kids who just enjoy participating. And if Johnny is in High School and is still chasing butterflies in left field, perhaps Johnny should be allowed to pursue other interests. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-27-2008, 08:26 AM	#12
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	And that's too bad. True, but too bad. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-27-2008, 10:40 AM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Her tits look like tits... __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-27-2008, 10:47 AM	#15
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	ah-tah Attached Images __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

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