Why is the United States backing Mexican drug gangs?

[Cloud]

there are folks who support legalizing cocaine and heroin?

[TheMercenary]

That is interesting. Esp if the perception is that the many of those are more affluent. But are they here legally?

[Undertoad]

Do you support the tax money that is spent on the failed "war on drugs"?

Indeed, somebody has already run the numbers:



Costs broken out here

[Cicero]

Lol! I cannot support the use of heroin or cocaine at all. Much less legalizing it...It just isn't ok.


Example:
Shooting each other for no apparent reason is still wrong if a lot of people do it, and it is a drain to society's economical welfare. Legalizing it is no cure. People still hurt theirselves and die.

Not that I, in any way, have a quick solution to the problems. The solutions presented so far are full of gaps and failures..It just isn't that easy, though I wish it were.

We have very few places for these addicts so far. I can't imagine affording the warehouses to store them in.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Wow, just wow. Thanks for finding those numbers, UT.

[Cloud]

are they here legally? I don't have personal knowledge of the numbers, but I suspect some are and some aren't. Probably most of this wave of middle class or affluent people have no trouble getting visas. These are not migrant farmworkers, "wetbacks" or anything like the popular conception of illegal immigrants.

You have to understand that a large number of people here in this town live on both sides of the border all the time. Live there, work here, or vice versa. Live there, send kids to school here. Work there, live here; half your family is here, the other half there, some with dual citizenship, some with work visas, some not. It's complex.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cloud

there are folks who support legalizing cocaine and heroin?

So far just pierce from what I can tell.

[Undertoad]

There can be intermediate steps. It can be handled more like a pharmaceutical matter, sold by licensed handlers, requiring details on what happens, and how to get help if you need it etc.

What the graph really points out is how increasing the money towards the drug war has not had any serious effect on usage.

So take that drug war money, and put a third of it to rehab and other care, a third of it to licensing/pharmaceutical, and a third of it to homeland security. Bam, now we're kindler gentler, the cops have jobs still, and I betcha 100% more effective at managing the problem instead of letting most of it fester in the underground economy. (Oh yes, also, when you bring it out of the underground economy, you can tax it. As they do the cigarettes. Voila.)

Plus I betcha my ex-nephew doesn't die from eating cut-up pain meds.

[TheMercenary]

I can't say that I have ever seen a Heroin addict who just did it as a recreational drug. I have seen it with cocaine, but even that eventually gets out of hand if you can afford it.

[Cicero]

People are going to die from fatal drugs no matter what.

[TheMercenary]

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

[TheMercenary]

Looks like Amsterdam is having a change of heart as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...on-drugs-crime

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

Will that eliminate more of the problem?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Cloud

there are folks who support legalizing cocaine and heroin?

At the moment, yes.

Keep in mind that I disagree with Cicero's example:

Example:
Shooting each other for no apparent reason is still wrong if a lot of people do it, and it is a drain to society's economical welfare. Legalizing it is no cure. People still hurt theirselves and die.

A better example would be the legalization of guns, excluding the entire rights issue. The best example I can think of is safe sex versus abstinence. The goal of both are to lower STD and pregnancy rates and statistics show that safe sex education produces lower rates than abstinence "education". That is why safe sex, while confusing, is more efficient at achieving that goal. Drugs could work in the same manner.

My stance is that while cocaine and heroin are extremely unhealthy and have negative effects that go past the individual that uses it, in the big picture, its legalization will be better overall than what we have today.

I have not seen any conclusive evidence that legalization of these drugs will cause a definitive increase in numbers and frequency of hard drug use. With marijuana laws loosening, we can look at those numbers as a guide to what might happen to harder drugs. And also, from personal experience, it is education about drugs, not scare tactics, that will keep teenagers off them. Also saying from experience, drugs are not hard to get. Marijuana is a joke to obtain and with those connections, cocaine and others are not that hard to get either.

Also, I would like to ask what are the goals of drug laws and the "war on drugs" and if anything has been accomplished? Drug use has not been lowered, drug businesses are doing better than ever, and we are losing money from it. I would say it is a failure so alternative methods should be explored.

That is why I am favor in legalization. Just like how abstinence only sex "education" has failed, drug laws have as well. Safe sex is proven to be superior alternative and legalization may turn out to be the same.

Obviously, public support will prevent these laws being passed but marijuana will lead the way into hopefully more rational drug laws than the ones we currently have.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Will that eliminate more of the problem?

Not in my opinion. Increasing access does not help people with addiction. I could really care less about pot. Heroin and cocaine is another class altogether.