What's the best move for the money?

[Nic Name]

Originally posted by juju

People are constantly tailgating me or passing me going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit. I'm very vengeful, too. If someone tailgates me I slow down to like 20-30 mph below the speed limit. It really pisses them off, but I think they deserve it for not passing me.

That is a dangerous game, too. Inducing road rage and contributing to another driver's irrational or impulsive passing behavior that results in an accident in the oncoming lane could cost some innocent driver his life.

If driving below the speed limit deliberately to frustrate another driver gives one a feeling of control, be prepared for responsibility and guilt in case of an accident involving an innocent third party, which might not have happened, otherwise.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by warch
And if the gun says we were speeding we were speeding.

That's not necessarily true. First of all, if a cop gives you a ticket, ask to see the radar gun, with your supposed speed locked in. That's your right. If they refuse (often because they didn't actually clock you), you can plead in court that the radar gun evidence is inadmissable.

If they did lock your speed in, before your court date send a certified letter to the police department asking to see the gun's calibration record (they must calibrate it each day or at the beginning of the shift, depending on local regs) and that officer's record of training on how to use it. If they don't reply, bring a copy of the certified letter to court. Case dismissed.

In Louisville, the court date you're assigned is in the evening, and if you wish to plead innocent there, they assign you a "real" court date during the day sometime later. I'm not sure if that's how it is everywhere. Anyhoo, I've never had a ticket that they didn't just dismiss that first night. Since most people don't show up to court, it's not worth it to them to go after the ones that do unless they have a really good case. Again, YMMV.

I once got a ticket in late November, and my night court date was December 23. I show up for court, and the judge is wearing a Santa hat. As court is called to session, he says "Look people, I want to get outta here as much as you do. You can ask for a day court date if you want, but I guarantee you won't get a better deal than you will from the guy wearing the red hat."

As my case is called, I approach the bench. "Mr. Johnson, you've been charged with speeding. You gonna slow down?" "Yes, your honor." "Case dismissed."

I agree that if you get busted, it's your own fault, and you did break the law. But I also think speed limits are ridiculously low in most places, and if they're gonna try to bust me on it, they better dot their i's and cross their t's.

So in your situation where you were a long way from home, you're pretty much stuck. Piss off the cop, and he might write you a baseless ticket, but you can't go to court to contest it. But if you're near home, don't be too afraid to piss 'em off if you know you're not doing anything wrong.

[juju]

Originally posted by Nic Name
That is a dangerous game, too. Inducing road rage and contributing to another driver's irrational or impulsive passing behavior that results in an accident in the oncoming lane could cost some innocent driver his life.

If driving below the speed limit deliberately to frustrate another driver gives one a feeling of control, be prepared for responsibility and guilt in case of an accident involving an innocent third party, which might not have happened, otherwise.

There's not a lot of road rage in Arkansas, and I don't do it in a way that could cause accidents. Anyway, unless I need to be somewhere very soon (e.g., i'm going to work), I don't really feel the need to go faster than the speed limit.

[Griff]

lifted from no-treason.com


Rob Robertson
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Requiem For A Mighty MoPar


Traffic was wide-open travelling south on I-95 out of New Hampshire, and the deep breathing, long-legged Sport Satellite settled nicely into into its favorite 100 mile per hour cruising groove. 7.2 liters of displacement coupled with 3.23 highway gears gave it all the low end torque it needed for handling the in-town chores, but where the pavement turned long and straight the top-end was limited only by a somewhat indifferent front suspension,... and nerve. Being young and not overly-bright meant not having the sense to listen to that spark of reason in my head because there was competition to be found out here, and I would have it.

I'd meant no harm when the pretty little IROC Z retreated in my rearview mirror, and frankly I wasn't interested in wasting gas on an anemic ghost of a past champion. The showroom Chevy raced up beside me, young boys crowding its windows, challenging the old MoPar and its driver as they mouthed, "Let's go!" Bored but curious, I let the Camaro pull ahead by half a car length, making sure to keep the nose of the Plymouth right in the corner of the driver's eye. Easing up to 120, the Chevy had run out of air, or gears, or perhaps guts, and I casually gave them a wave as I eased past right before mashing my foot to the floor, leaving them once again (and finally).

Mustangs also fell by the wayside in the same manner, and I'd always resented the emasculated Corvette owners who gave some pretense to racing yet fell back whenever we approached triple digits. Their machine was 'an investment', or 'a statement', or anything but the instrument for which it was designed; to propel a human being at speeds beyond the sanely acceptable. "The car has more balls than you do," I thought to myself, eyeing the middle-aged, executive type behind the wheel of what *should* have been some real competition. 'Cool it down and pack it up' was the plan to which I'd resigned myself as I looped around to pick up 128 North to Cape Ann.

North of Beverly is where the complexion of Route 128 really changes. The malls and industrial parks are left far behind, as well as the clots of commuters and extra lanes. Dense and green, the trees grew right up to the edge of the highway as well as filling the wide median, blocking the view between the north and southbound lanes. Even at 85 the scene was peaceful, and in my reverie I never noticed the bright red Porche 911 bearing down on me. Alone on that two lane stretch of highway, the Porche smoothly negotiated around me and back into the fast lane, checking his rearview to see if I was willing to give chase.

A slight dip of the nose told him all he need to know, and in a heartbeat our speedometers registered the news; each of us had found the challenge we were looking for.

My stock instrument gauge was useless as the needle swung through 120, pinning itself at the (undesignated) speed of 130, leaving only the tachometer and some ungodly sound from under the hood to tell the tale. NASCAR racing was coming to life, and the high-pitched sound of an engine running past six thousand RPM filled me with visions of pistons punching through the hood. Still the Porche maintained the lead, and drafting was no longer just a buzzword from the broadcasting booth. The 911's whale tail opened a pocket for me to slip into, and moving out to pass left me desperately trying to convince the front-end of the Mighty MoPar that my notion of direction was worthy of merit.

The road pulled up into a slight rise with a sweeping right hand turn at its crest, and at 7400 RPM my motor seemed eager for even more fuel. This was my spot, my only chance to break away from the German fury and prove the mettle of American iron. Standing between me and victory was a sedate little commuter car in the right hand travel lane, blithely rolling along at the posted 55 miles per hour. Fortunately for me (and unfortunately for him), the breakdown lane was just wide enough for the Plymouth's bulging rear fenders plus a jelly donut, and with the most careful input to the steering wheel I could muster, I let the beast drift across the lane, sheering off distance as I took a radically inside line, aiming for an apex between gravel and the station wagon's side molding.

I wondered what the unsuspecting commuter felt as the two speed demons passed him on either side at nearly the exact moment, but by the time I'd pulled back into the passing lane in front of the 911 he was nowhere to be seen in the vibrating mirror. A bit of panic seeped into my brain as I realized that we were fast approaching traffic ahead at what must have been 165 mph, but both the Porche pilot and I throttled back and let it go with a friendly wave. Adrenaline rushed through me, my legs rubbery and jangling as I scrubbed off speed to take my exit, leaving me spent but elated as I mused, "there's no replacement for cubic displacement!"

[Undertoad]

Well I've only been the commuter in that tale.

About ten years back I was on 295 going a stead 60, and one of those 911s passed me at about 140 MPH. It was an amazing sight to see. Well, amazing for the 1.5 seconds that I could see it.

It must've been about 1am, and conditions were clear and safe, so more power to him. But I almost had to stick my foot out the door to see if I was still moving.

[Xugumad]

Originally posted by Undertoad

Part of the problem is that Europe is on average about 10 times as densely populated as the US.

Part of the problem is that the US driving test in most states is almost ludicrously easy to pass and requires very little in the way of skill, experience, and patience.

I'd like to point to the uncle of a friend of mine who lived in Britain for 40 years, failed his driving test about seven or eight times, finally moved to the US when he was in his fifties, and instantly passed the NY state driving test.

There is often a minimum amount of hours you need to have taken with a certified driving instructor, with the rule-of-thumb being that you should have taken as many hours as you are years' old. Highway time is required, as well as at least one night-time lesson, and extensive theoretical schooling.

This would pose less of a problem in the US if the driving age wasn't 16, but 18, like it is in most of Europe. I do agree that driving conditions are much more difficult there, as you can't just cruise along for hours at 60mph; similarly, road conditions and skill necessary are an altogether different matter, as well.

Badly-schooled, inexperienced drivers and the low driving age all contribute to car accidents being the number one cause of death in the US for people between the ages of 6 and 27. I'm not saying that all of those could be prevented by sticking to the road rules, but I wonder if the 'stick it to the man' attitude has something to do with it. Another empty statistic: Car Accidents are the leading cause of death among teenagers in the United States, accounting for 36% of all deaths of persons aged 15 to 19 years. The fatal crash rate per million miles for 16-year-old drivers is more than 7 times the rate for drivers aged 30 to 59 years.

X.

[elSicomoro]

I've never seen them here, but back in St. Louis they have "traffic lawyers." You pay them to go to court for you and plea your case down to a parking violation in exchange for a slightly higher fine. You pay the higher fine and your driving record stays clean. I know that the City of Washington, DC allows people caught on the radar cameras to do the same thing, but I've never heard of it being done here in the Philadelphia area.

Griff, Mopar fucking sucks, and that's all I have to say about that. Though I did almost buy a Barracuda once.

[warch]

I got a speeding ticket when I lived in Austin- (guilty, late for a job, mid-day, little traffic, going 45 in a 30 zone, cop caught going down a hill) And to wipe it off my record I was allowed to take a comedy safe driving course. It was really strange. I guess its a gig for the struggling stand up or actor and so I was re-educated. Not sure if they do that anymore.

[Tobiasly]

I'm right with ya on that one X. We're way too lax on testing drivers. It's true that speed demons and people who weave through lanes are a problem, but a big part of that problem is, for example, people who stay in the left lane or who don't use turn signals.

I am guilty of road rage myself sometimes, I'll admit, and prolly 75% of the time is when some idiot won't get over. Or even worse, when two people are going the same speed. Then you get about a dozen cars stacked behind them who, when the opening occurs, will zip between them to get around.

And then there's older drivers. I've got nothing against senior citizen drivers who are still competent, even if they do drive too slow. But there's no excuse for allowing those few who just aren't in control of their vehicle or are aware of their surroundings to keep driving. We need to have more continual testing every few years, and it should get more frequent as you get older. It'll never happen though.

[russotto]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Where's russotto dammit?

At the time you posted, probably doing about 80mph up US 422.

I drive a '99 Mazda Miata. My '91 Mazda Miata (which wasn't as capable) could do top speed (somewhere around 120mph) on the St. Gabe's Curve, no problem -- I did the curve flat out at 1am one morning, but got nailed while coasting for my exit. 18 wheelers (CF trucks excluded) do the curve at 55-65mph. A max speed of 55 for the whole thing is just silly.

A local road -- something of a minor arterial, really -- has a speed limit of 25mph. They set up one of those radar signs on it recently, at the bottom of a long, straight hill. I had a set of inline skates with me, so I strapped them on and let fly. 33mph -- yet a car should do 25? And they weren't my racing skates, either. Most of the cars coming over the top of the hill were doing 40ish, though they slowed down when they saw the sign.

I've driven from Florida to here in 13 hours. If I'd stuck to the speed limits, I couldn't have done it in one stretch.

I've been involved in a few accidents. Oddly, though I speed whenever I can, all have occurred at or below the speed limit.

The state passes all sorts of ridiculous laws. They'd be intolerable if I thought I actually had to follow them. And at least in terms of frequency of irritation, speed limits are #1 on that list. Nothing cures "road rage" like a good chance to put the pedal to the metal, be it on interstates or on the twisties.

[Nic Name]

quote:
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Originally posted by juju

People are constantly tailgating me or passing me going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit. I'm very vengeful, too. If someone tailgates me I slow down to like 20-30 mph below the speed limit. It really pisses them off, but I think they deserve it for not passing me.
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Reply by Nic Name

That is a dangerous game, too. Inducing road rage and contributing to another driver's irrational or impulsive passing behavior that results in an accident in the oncoming lane could cost some innocent driver his life.

If driving below the speed limit deliberately to frustrate another driver gives one a feeling of control, be prepared for responsibility and guilt in case of an accident involving an innocent third party, which might not have happened, otherwise.

I thought about this discussion again, when I read about the cause of that accident involving the FedEx truck.

Fiery crash of FedEx truck blocks St. Louis interstate

By Richard Thompson

October 30, 2002

A FedEx Ground truck struck a highway exit sign north of St. Louis on Tuesday afternoon and caught fire, shutting down a suburban portion of the busy interstate in both directions as debris littered the road.

The accident occurred between 1 p.m. and 1:25 p.m. on Interstate 270 in North St. Louis County near the Illinois state line.

No injuries were reported in the one-vehicle accident; the driver and a passenger in the truck walked away unharmed.

Officials said the accident occurred after the FedEx truck driver swerved in an apparent attempt to avoid striking another car that slowed in front of the two-trailer truck.

Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Chris Ricks said preliminary investigation showed that during the swerve the rear trailer of the truck struck the highway sign for the Bellefontaine exit. The rear trailer was caught on the sign but the rest of the truck kept going and packages spilled onto the road, he said.

Ricks said the truck's right cab fuel tank then ruptured and caught fire. The rear trailer sustained the most damage, he said.

FedEx spokesman Jess Bunn said there was no explosion.

Because of the fire and the debris, that section of 1-270, the outer loop highway of St. Louis, was shut down in both directions for several hours.

FedEx Ground is the ground, small-package delivery unit of FedEx Corp., the $21 billion global transportation company.

Bunn said the FedEx Ground truck was en route from Kansas City to Columbus, Ohio.

FedEx did not release a manifest of the truck's destroyed contents, but there were no hazardous materials aboard, the company said.

Late Tuesday, police were searching for the driver of the vehicle that caused the crash.

[juju]

Originally posted by Nic Name
Late Tuesday, police were searching for the driver of the vehicle that caused the crash.

It wasn't me!

[elSicomoro]

I used to drive that section of 270 regularly...I don't recall that sign being particularly low, so...how the hell did he get the trailer caught?

[tw]

Originally posted by Nic Name
That is a dangerous game, too. Inducing road rage and contributing to another driver's irrational or impulsive passing behavior that results in an accident in the oncoming lane could cost some innocent driver his life.

Driving slower and increasing the distance to cars in front is exactly what good drivers do in response to tailgaters. Tailgaters often don't understand that only reason for all that slower traffic is themselves. Since tailgaters will never understand until other pro-humanity people point out to a tailgater his lack of knowledge. Slowing due to a tailgater increases safety of other vehicles. Never criticize anyone who does exactly what one must do in response to tailgating.

One should never talk kindly about those who physically attack or intimidate other people. A bully in school is no different from a tailgater - who causes all traffic to slow down because others must respond - to compensate for the serious degradation of safety.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by Undertoad

About ten years back I was on 295 going a stead 60, and one of those 911s passed me at about 140 MPH. It was an amazing sight to see. Well, amazing for the 1.5 seconds that I could see it.

I had a similar experience once.

I was getting on the PA Turnpike eastbound at Valley Forge (old exit 24). Those who know me know I'm *far* from the world's slowest driver, and this is when I was still driving a Pontiac Grand Prix with the big engine, before I bought my current Saturn SC-2. Plenty of power.

The Exit 24 entrance to eastbound was a route I drove every workday for at least 20 years, it was a spring evening and the sun was still up, so with light traffic and good visibility, I wasn't holding back. Tthe entry ramp there is two lanes wide; I accelerated to a good merge speed--probably got to about 60-65mph--and was checking the outside rearview for traffic to merge into before going faster when a yellow Corvette blew by me in the right-hand entrance lane as if I was standing still. He was doing *at least* 85 when he passed, and was still accelerating at that point.

Figured I wouldn't see *him* again, but I was wrong.

About 8 miles down the road, a set of skid marks left the highway and connected with furrows plowed into the grass off to the side (this part of the Turnpike didn't have close-in guardrails).

Just visible over the crest of the berm was the rear end of a yellow Corvette...