Is wipe and reinstall the ultimate solution. - Page 2

mbpark · 06-07-2009, 03:51 PM

One word: iTunes

Get me that working on Linux and you'll have a ton of switchovers. I know that because of the low-level device drivers that Apple installs, Wine has a ton of issues.

Additionally, there's just so much software out there that people want and/or need, everything from Microsoft Office (while OpenOffice is good, it does not handle complex documents well, or allows you to read/write Office 2007 formats), Photo Editing (GIMP is no replacement for Paint Shop Pro), online games (one word: PopCap), or even some proprietary VPN software, it just isn't there.

Don't get me wrong, I really do like Linux (and am using OS X Leopard to type this). I have RHEL running my SMTP gateways, and RHEL, CentOS, Fedora, or other variants powering many embedded appliances in our shop at work. I trust Linux with many critical functions, and I have e17 running on Ubuntu 9.04 on my dual-boot Dell Latitude laptop with working drivers, which I use a slightly hacked version of easy_e17.sh to install (two of rasterman's libraries are in flux and won't build).

The point is, it's a Windows-centric world out there. I have attempted to get people onto Linux. However, it won't pass the "Wife Test" for anything more than using Firefox with Flash, Java, and some add-ons, and maybe OpenOffice for simple documents. It does work perfectly with the AEP Networks Netilla SSL VPN, and with a little work, will work with Citrix.

However, the first time someone sees something that doesn't work, and there's no hand-holding, there's a problem and they'll run back to Windows. That has happened to me. People don't accept imitations. They want their iTunes, to read and write the Office documents that people send them, to quickly edit pictures with a decent user interface, download games from their friends (even though they are .SWF files wrapped in an EXE, and WINE is utter crap at handling ActiveX, I know I have installed Flash Player 10 on IE6 under WINE and gotten it to work), their QuickBooks, and their third-party applications they can get at Best Buy (except games, where WINE and CrossOver kick ass, and so does DOSEMU).

Linux is the best low to mid-end server OS, purpose-built appliance OS (I know Bed, Bath, and Beyond and Burlington Coat Factory run Linux, and that a Linux-based appliance running Citrix would seriously kick ass), and best tweakable OS.

Would I recommend it to people who have less than a technical/scientific bent? No. It won't pass the wife test, and I can't give it to power users who are not technical and expect them to be productive. I could give it to people in the sciences (where Linux is by far the #1 OS for running scientific applications), and they'll have their LaTEX, R, and all their scientific applications running fine. I could give it to any software developer, especially Java developers, and they'll have svn, cvs, Eclipse, and any number of HTTP debuggers up and running (although Visual Studio is nothing short of incredible). I can give it to any appliance developer and they'll have a front-end to VLC, mplayer, Firefox, Flash/Gnash, Citrix, or any GPS application (like my TomTom GPS which runs Linux with Firefox libraries apparently) quickly. I can give it to our Oracle DBAs at work and they'll have it up and running with the DB running on the OCFS2 filesystem doing distributed computing in a day. I can give it to our web team and they'll have LAMP or J2EE applications up in a day.

I just can't give it to a standard end-user. Windows has made leaps and bounds of improvement in the past five years, especially with Vista SP1 and Windows 7, but Linux, while I think it is a great OS, and that Ubuntu has really raised the bar for a desktop distribution by making Debian accessible to many more people, just isn't there.

mbpark · 06-07-2009, 03:57 PM

BTW you can export Quicken files in XML format. GNUCash will read them just fine. One good decision Intuit made back over 10 years ago was to use XML as the base for their data interchange format, OFX (Open Financial eXchange).

My old company built several OFX gateways for some customers a few years back. The last one we did as an example for a division of Deutsche Bank in Java, and our main developer faithfully brought his Powerbook G4 15" in to do the work

.

Perry Winkle · 06-07-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbpark

(although Visual Studio is nothing short of incredible)

Don't get me started on Visual Studio. I have to use it at work every day. I've never seen a bigger piece of crap in my life. I'm not sure whether it's VS itself or the Refactor! Pro and other add-ins we use that make it suck.

Spacebar activated text macros are just the tip of my VS-complaint iceberg.

ETA: Yes, I agree. Linux is not for most people but it would be good enough for a lot of people. Since I don't know what monster uses on Windows, I figured it'd be worth a shot pointing out another option.

ZenGum · 06-07-2009, 07:45 PM

Is wipe and reinstall the ultimate solution?

I thought this was going to be a relationship thread...

Now that I have read it, I can only say, WTF are you people talking about?

I'll stick to simple things like quantum physics and macrocosmology, thanks.

mbpark · 06-07-2009, 09:31 PM

Perry,

It has to be the add-ins. I've seen it run very slick with a very good debugger with one or two add-ins. Otherwise, it's a polished environment. The best add-ins that I've seen for it have been the security ones (WebInspect), and the worst are from Computer Associates. I've heard good things about the Intel plug-ins too, as their compilers use it as the front end for C/C++ and Fortran.

I've had to use Sun's developer tools from companies they have acquired before they were acquired by Oracle. Visual Studio is a vast improvement to say the least.

tw · 06-09-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Is wipe and reinstall the ultimate solution?

Did you really think this was going to be a discussion about bathroom ethics?

monster · 06-09-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Did you really think this was going to be a discussion about bathroom ethics?

I did, to be honest.....

ZenGum · 06-10-2009, 12:29 AM

Its the reinstall that I have trouble with.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-10-2009, 12:34 AM

Just suck it up, ya wimp.

tw · 06-11-2009, 09:24 PM

I thought computers were supposed to eliminate all this paperwork. Whatever happened to a paperless society?

xoxoxoBruce · 06-12-2009, 01:38 AM

That idea bidet the dust.

06-07-2009, 07:45 PM	#19
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Is wipe and reinstall the ultimate solution? I thought this was going to be a relationship thread... Now that I have read it, I can only say, WTF are you people talking about? I'll stick to simple things like quantum physics and macrocosmology, thanks. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

06-10-2009, 12:29 AM	#23
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Its the reinstall that I have trouble with. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

06-10-2009, 12:34 AM	#24
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Just suck it up, ya wimp. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-12-2009, 01:38 AM	#26
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That idea bidet the dust. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-07-2009, 03:51 PM	#16
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	One word: iTunes Get me that working on Linux and you'll have a ton of switchovers. I know that because of the low-level device drivers that Apple installs, Wine has a ton of issues. Additionally, there's just so much software out there that people want and/or need, everything from Microsoft Office (while OpenOffice is good, it does not handle complex documents well, or allows you to read/write Office 2007 formats), Photo Editing (GIMP is no replacement for Paint Shop Pro), online games (one word: PopCap), or even some proprietary VPN software, it just isn't there. Don't get me wrong, I really do like Linux (and am using OS X Leopard to type this). I have RHEL running my SMTP gateways, and RHEL, CentOS, Fedora, or other variants powering many embedded appliances in our shop at work. I trust Linux with many critical functions, and I have e17 running on Ubuntu 9.04 on my dual-boot Dell Latitude laptop with working drivers, which I use a slightly hacked version of easy_e17.sh to install (two of rasterman's libraries are in flux and won't build). The point is, it's a Windows-centric world out there. I have attempted to get people onto Linux. However, it won't pass the "Wife Test" for anything more than using Firefox with Flash, Java, and some add-ons, and maybe OpenOffice for simple documents. It does work perfectly with the AEP Networks Netilla SSL VPN, and with a little work, will work with Citrix. However, the first time someone sees something that doesn't work, and there's no hand-holding, there's a problem and they'll run back to Windows. That has happened to me. People don't accept imitations. They want their iTunes, to read and write the Office documents that people send them, to quickly edit pictures with a decent user interface, download games from their friends (even though they are .SWF files wrapped in an EXE, and WINE is utter crap at handling ActiveX, I know I have installed Flash Player 10 on IE6 under WINE and gotten it to work), their QuickBooks, and their third-party applications they can get at Best Buy (except games, where WINE and CrossOver kick ass, and so does DOSEMU). Linux is the best low to mid-end server OS, purpose-built appliance OS (I know Bed, Bath, and Beyond and Burlington Coat Factory run Linux, and that a Linux-based appliance running Citrix would seriously kick ass), and best tweakable OS. Would I recommend it to people who have less than a technical/scientific bent? No. It won't pass the wife test, and I can't give it to power users who are not technical and expect them to be productive. I could give it to people in the sciences (where Linux is by far the #1 OS for running scientific applications), and they'll have their LaTEX, R, and all their scientific applications running fine. I could give it to any software developer, especially Java developers, and they'll have svn, cvs, Eclipse, and any number of HTTP debuggers up and running (although Visual Studio is nothing short of incredible). I can give it to any appliance developer and they'll have a front-end to VLC, mplayer, Firefox, Flash/Gnash, Citrix, or any GPS application (like my TomTom GPS which runs Linux with Firefox libraries apparently) quickly. I can give it to our Oracle DBAs at work and they'll have it up and running with the DB running on the OCFS2 filesystem doing distributed computing in a day. I can give it to our web team and they'll have LAMP or J2EE applications up in a day. I just can't give it to a standard end-user. Windows has made leaps and bounds of improvement in the past five years, especially with Vista SP1 and Windows 7, but Linux, while I think it is a great OS, and that Ubuntu has really raised the bar for a desktop distribution by making Debian accessible to many more people, just isn't there.

06-07-2009, 03:57 PM	#17
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	BTW you can export Quicken files in XML format. GNUCash will read them just fine. One good decision Intuit made back over 10 years ago was to use XML as the base for their data interchange format, OFX (Open Financial eXchange). My old company built several OFX gateways for some customers a few years back. The last one we did as an example for a division of Deutsche Bank in Java, and our main developer faithfully brought his Powerbook G4 15" in to do the work .

06-07-2009, 09:31 PM	#20
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Perry, It has to be the add-ins. I've seen it run very slick with a very good debugger with one or two add-ins. Otherwise, it's a polished environment. The best add-ins that I've seen for it have been the security ones (WebInspect), and the worst are from Computer Associates. I've heard good things about the Intel plug-ins too, as their compilers use it as the front end for C/C++ and Fortran. I've had to use Sun's developer tools from companies they have acquired before they were acquired by Oracle. Visual Studio is a vast improvement to say the least.

06-11-2009, 09:24 PM	#25
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	I thought computers were supposed to eliminate all this paperwork. Whatever happened to a paperless society?

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