A rambling search for an underlying principle

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sure they do, those gizzards will grind up anything.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

Chickens graze?

They eats everything, even little rodents and snakes, but green grass is a preferred food.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classicman

really Griff? That sounds nice. I'm thinking of planting eggs in next years garden.

You're kinky!

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

Chickens graze?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sure they do, those gizzards will grind up anything.

Originally Posted by Griff

They eats everything, even little rodents and snakes, but green grass is a preferred food.

Seeds, I could understand, but, I did not know chickens ate grass. And I'm having trouble with it...

[Griff]

quick search of youtube...

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Griff, I think you are very close to where I was headed with this.

There needs to be a balance between "survival-ism" and "corporation-ism".
My wife tries to "buy local" but we get into arguments about whether the label means small and responsible, or is just conglomerate advertising.

I am moving toward survivalism. I hope to get off the grid or nearly as possible in the next 5 years. By then it may be to late. We love to buy local, but really I don't think there is any proof positive that you get a better product, other than growing and supporting your local economy. A country side stand that I bought "home grown" tomatoes at for years had actually importing them from NC. They still tasted great, but they were not local. You do have to be careful and at least ask before you buy.

[classicman]

Go Solar!

[Lamplighter]

A long personal rant...

I agree about "buying local".
If you can actually (personally) know the grower maybe there's a chance,
but there are a lot of products out there that are taking advantage of the current fad of "green".

I disagree with the idea of survivalism.
Not everyone can go that route, nor should they try.
Can you imagine the situation if they did... it would be back to Dan'l Boone days...
and feuds would not be settled as easily, smoothly, and friendly as they are here in The Cellar .

In starting this thread (post #1), I was trying to use the idea that stand-alone computers are personally satisfying, but networks make things better for everyone connected.
The problems come when all of the data is stored on "the big computer in the sky", and that big computer is owned by just one or a few individuals who have their own motivations.

It's OK if the owner is a "benign dictator" working for the good of all it's users, but if $ is the only goal... well, you know where that is going. Can you spell BP, Comcast, Koch... ?

My most recent concern is the US Supreme Court's decision to bestow the Right of unlimited free speech on corporations (i.e., any business). That is, they are now legally defined as an "individual" with all the rights of an individual. Advertising, whether political or not, can be done in any form, saying whatever the company desires, in whatever amount the company can afford. So with mega-corporations, well, you know where that is going.
Can you spell BP, Comcast, Koch... ?

Corporations are now individuals equivalent to a person with all legal rights
and enormous coffers of funds to run rampant over the human beings and smaller (vulnerable) businesses.

How can we protect ourselves from:
the big computer in the sky ?
the egg farm distributing tainted eggs with impunity ?
the corporation that mounts overwhelming political advertising that to only benefits their $ bottom line to the detriment of the population?

How can we (humans) protect ourselves from the non-benign dictators ?

I hope that if we find the underlying principle that is working here, it will lead to a beneficial solution.
Otherwise, you get what you... are sold.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

A long personal rant...

I agree about "buying local".
If you can actually (personally) know the grower maybe there's a chance,
but there are a lot of products out there that are taking advantage of the current fad of "green".

I try. But it is not as easy as you think, even when you think you are buying local.

I disagree with the idea of survivalism.
Not everyone can go that route, nor should they try.
Can you imagine the situation if they did... it would be back to Dan'l Boone days...
and feuds would not be settled as easily, smoothly, and friendly as they are here in The Cellar .

That is going to be my approach. I no longer trust the government to do it's job.

In starting this thread (post #1), I was trying to use the idea that stand-alone computers are personally satisfying, but networks make things better for everyone connected.
The problems come when all of the data is stored on "the big computer in the sky", and that big computer is owned by just one or a few individuals who have their own motivations.

It's OK if the owner is a "benign dictator" working for the good of all it's users, but if $ is the only goal... well, you know where that is going. Can you spell BP, Comcast, Koch... ?

It is a fact of our world, just substitute Google, Microsoft, and Apple and you have it.

My most recent concern is the US Supreme Court's decision to bestow the Right of unlimited free speech on corporations (i.e., any business). That is, they are now legally defined as an "individual" with all the rights of an individual. Advertising, whether political or not, can be done in any form, saying whatever the company desires, in whatever amount the company can afford. So with mega-corporations, well, you know where that is going.
Can you spell BP, Comcast, Koch... ?

Corporations are now individuals equivalent to a person with all legal rights
and enormous coffers of funds to run rampant over the human beings and smaller (vulnerable) businesses.

And my fear is that we have law makers who want to regulate the airwaves and take away the free market forces which have shaped radio, under the guise of "leveling" the playing field, all along the motivations are purely partisan. Let those who want to enter the market do so, and then support themselves with advertising and support of the listeners as others do. If they make it they make it. If they fail they do so by their own failures. I am not a supporter of the SC ruling, but it is what it is. So I guess we have to live with it for now.

How can we protect ourselves from:
the big computer in the sky ?

I don't know, get off the grid and don't allow it to influence you?

the egg farm distributing tainted eggs with impunity ?

Buy chickens?

the corporation that mounts overwhelming political advertising that to only benefits their $ bottom line to the detriment of the population?

It has already been happening for years, since the age and development of the advertising industry.

How can we (humans) protect ourselves from the non-benign dictators ?

Revolution? I am about ready to start with this Congress and President.

I hope that if we find the underlying principle that is working here, it will lead to a beneficial solution.
Otherwise, you get what you... are sold.

Agreed.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Libertarians understand that the business of humanity is business. Class-warfare resentment peddlers either forgot that or never knew it in the first place. And they're out for the profit they can get if they succeed.

[TheMercenary]

Business is the engine the drives the country, not government. Government is a poor source of job creation, even when it does so it is a very temporary source of job creation and in the end people just end up where they started. Anything that suppresses business from making reasonable profits will continue to stagnate the economy.

[squirell nutkin]

Corporations are now individuals equivalent to a person with all legal rights without accountability for their actions!

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Libertarians understand that the business of humanity is business. Class-warfare resentment peddlers either forgot that or never knew it in the first place. And they're out for the profit they can get if they succeed.

Scientists understand that the business of humanity is survival of the species. It is a funny sort of libertarianism that opposes human rights in favor of group (corporate) rights. Slavery to government or slavery to business is still slavery. Read up on your coal country company towns. That is the full expression of your ideas. It may also be a pretty good analog for where our country is headed. The right is fascinated by the prospect of perfected business, while the left is fascinated by perfected government, both are unattainable and create hell on earth.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Corporations are now individuals equivalent to a person with all legal rights without accountability for their actions!

Hell, individuals are not accountable for their actions any more, what's the difference?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Business is the engine the drives the country, not government.

The Market and the energy of the People are the engine. Business is just a passenger on the train. But Business has a First Class Reserved seat, because Government is selling the tickets and always puts his buddy up front.