Mars: One Way

[Griff]

If we can grow wheat in Brazil we can grow pot on Mars.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

If we can grow wheat in Brazil we can grow pot on Mars.

Even the Rover Spirit cannot stay alive in normal sub-freezing summer temperatures on the equator. Because it solar array could not be fully pointed at the sun, it looks like winter killed even transistors. Transistors. Things that are perfectly good even at -40 degrees.

With its big solar arrays - the best and most efficient mankind can produce - the Rovers have a 100 watts of electricity for the four hours every day. How does any man survive end when even solar arrays produce near zero energy? Well so many feel they can. Therefore we can even grow hemp. Export ropes from Mars.

World’s best science comes from machines - with no humans nearby.

Has the Spirit died? Probably. It could not generate enough electricity to even keep transistors alive. Next few weeks will say more. Rumor has it that Spirit is already inside a Martian junk yard. It could not even defend itself. Mars is vicious even for machines.

If we keep sending up hardware, then the Martians will construct a pot. Then Martian cannibals can broast astronauts. Better is to give them something they cannot eat. Martian Rovers.

BTW, no water has been found on Mars. Theories suggests water left only a few hundred thousand years ago. Even water decided it was better to leave Mars.

[Griff]

The "best" solar array for an aging mobile system is not the best and most efficient mankind can build. In the case of permanent human settlement, efficiency should give way to durability and ease of production. Machines are useful but they are not man and do not meet the primary objective of species survival. Science is the means not the end.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Doesn't having government scientist's with a primary objective of species survival, just reinforce the old attitude of I don't have to worry about how I treat the Earth, science will come up with a fix?

[tw]

On 4 Mar 2004 at Perverting science for politics

One reason suggested for less funding on quantum physics is that those scientific results are in direct contradiction to Genesis. How dare we challenge teachings of the Bible. Slowly, more advanced physic research is moving to Europe and Japan where funding request need not be written to avoid religious overtones. Can we point fingers at specific lawmakers? No. But many science projects based on concepts contrary to Genesis have suddenly lost funding only recently. One example cited here is the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS) which would have asked questions about the Big Bang - a concept that violates Genesis.

And so the AMS has sat quashed until we finally removed a wacko extremist from office. Suddenly, a critical experiment addressing quantum physics is acceptable again. Dr Ting's Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS) is now scheduled for a very last space shuttle flight. But more interesting, it will do science where no virtually no science is performed - ISS.

Manned spaceflight, which takes almost all of NASA's budget, does almost no science. Almost all science is performed by robots and machines for very little money. Which is why Man to Mars is also so obviously rediculous.

AMS needs no manual intervention. It only requires a vehicle to carry it. And that will be ISS. ISS does so little science (due to men being on it) that the AMS is a very welcome attachment. At least astronauts can be adjacent to science that works just fine without them.

AMS was killed off in 2003. From the New York Times of 18 Nov 2010:

Dr. Ting fought back. In 2005, invited to address a Senate committee on the state of American science, he used his five minutes and nine transparencies to mount a rousing defense of basic science and of his experiment. “They were surprised to hear that the space station can do good science,” Dr. Ting recalled.

And still, Dr Ting's AMS, which must answer a critical quantum physics question about positron numbers, could not get a ride until the very last Shuttle was looking for a payload.

By putting too many men in space, therefore too little science gets done. AMS is more science planned in the 1990s, essential to answering fundamental science questions, and will finally get launched in 2011. Meanwhile we built an ISS that does almost no science; all for the glory and myths of man in space.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The space station is about what happens to people in space, cooperation between governments and people of different backgrounds.
It's a social experiment that could help humans more than any science experiment ever could.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The space station is about what happens to people in space, cooperation between governments and people of different backgrounds.
It's a social experiment that could help humans more than any science experiment ever could.

Put a bunch of Chilean miners is a hole for months with a Peruvian. A testy experiment that accomplishes the same thing.

Or Biosphere 2. Same thing.

What could have taught the world far more? The lesson learned from Desert Storm where literally the entire world united for a common goal. Or the Balkan where Europe learned how much must still be learned. Or Sudan. Or the many Central African states. That is governments and people learning from social experiments - that also are not learned on the ISS.

What really was the ISS? A project to test peaceful cooperation between former cold war adversaries. That purpose was long since become obsolete. Meanwhile the ISS such the living blood out of mankind's most important activity - fundamental science.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's why you can understand what going on, tw. Thinking fundamental science is mankind's most important activity is misguided. Mankind's most important activity is getting along with each other.

[glatt]

It may not be the best for science, but the ISS is pretty cool. Imagine if that was you posing there. It's the perfect profile picture for the Cellar or Facebook.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Mankind's most important activity is getting along with each other.

Which was made irrelevant when we use ships, jet airplanes, passports, telephones, eliminate tariffs, create the UN, remove silly immigration quotas, international law, ... Oh. All that was made possible by so many breakthroughs in fundamental science and the resulting products.

Also cool is the Tower of Babel. So we should build one?

The point is that best science is performed by machines. Not by sending men into environments that man performs so poorly in.

Telescopes work best without men nearby. Deep sea research and even oil exploration only by machines and robots. Advance semiconductor, nuclear, and quantum physics - remove the humans. Since the 1960s, science has advanced because even space exploration is now possible and done better by machines. Machines will only get even more productive, intelligent, and flexible when men stay where men are most productive. Where men can do what men do best to advance fundamental science.

[fo0hzy]

Watch 'Moon' and imagine this kind of sci fi BS actually set forth.

No way two peeps could endure the '6 month' trip, let alone setting up a base on Mars.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Liar, I never said "staying ignorant". Science will solve all out social problems, was the post war cry to the masses. How'd that work out for ya?

No fo0hzy, I'm not talking to you.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by fo0hzy

No way two peeps could endure the '6 month' trip, let alone setting up a base on Mars.

Submariners do extended missions.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

Submariners do extended missions.

How many tons of materials and systems surround each sailor to protect him from a not so harsh environment? Mars makes that underwater environment equivalent to a tropical paradise.

What is the price of each pound to Mars? Something like $hundreds of thoudands or $millions per pound. How many submariners survive in a mild environment with a few hundred pounds of equipment to protect him? And no equipment to do the science.

A manned trip to Mars is about 1 year. Without protection as provided by earth for ISS, those astronauts would die prematurely. No protection solution exists yet even in theory.

Best science means humans back on earth sending machines to do most work. Even ocean science is now done by machines - not by humans. It takes too many tons to keep one man alive even in very shallow water.

[Pete Zicato]

That's all great if people were strictly rational. They're not. There is something in the human spirit that loves a wilderness. The same kind of people who climb mount Everest because it's there will go to Mars - someday.