If you aren't guilty, what are you afraid of? - Page 2

Radar · 12-05-2002, 06:06 PM

Carla Howell spent most of her time trying to get Question 1 passed. She knew she didn't have a good shot at winning the election so she worked on ending income tax in Taxachussets which is an even greater accomplishment in my book. And she very nearly did it despite having limited funds for radio ads, newspaper ads, etc. and the Globe and other newspapers coming out against her.

At the very least she ensured that there will be no tax increase in Taxachussets by the new governor or other people in office this term.

Slang: You're correct, gun registration and rectriction laws are both unconstitutional and cost a lot in terms of lives.

slang · 12-05-2002, 06:28 PM

OK, thanks Radar. Counting you , I think the total number of people here that DONT think I'm delusional is at.....what, 4?

Griff · 12-05-2002, 06:49 PM

We are not growing in membership. Put down the glass.

Slang, you're mostly sane at least on health care and guns, also any paranoia about Homeland Security is completely justified .

Cam · 12-05-2002, 06:50 PM

Oh please god no, no gun control debate.

Radar · 12-05-2002, 07:05 PM

Quote:

We are not growing in membership. Put down the glass.

The Libertarian party is not only growing but growing faster than any other party. I should know, my efforts are responsible for 1% - 2% of the newly registered Libertarians in the state with the most Libertarians. I've done youth outreach stuff at raves, political rallies, etc. with a team of other guys.

I'm the membership chair in my region which happens to be one of the most active regions in America.

russotto · 12-05-2002, 07:15 PM

The LP is dead, dead, dead. The ideals it stands for have a small and dwindling contituency in the US, and the LP itself hit its high point in 1972. The two-party system in the United States is far too stable and entrenched to be budged using methods available within the system. And it is set up so most outside influences strengthen it as well.

Radar · 12-05-2002, 07:52 PM

The LP is alive and well. In fact we've got the most members and registered voters we've ever had and more elected members than all other third parties combined.

There's NOTHING stable about the two major parties. In fact they are bringing instability and even destruction to America and perhaps the world.

More and more members are leaving the two major parties as they become disenchanted and realize there's virtually no difference between the two parties.

Undertoad · 12-05-2002, 08:41 PM

There's your "most members and registered voters we've ever had" LP historical membership statistics, dude.

I can be such a dick when I know I'm right.

Undertoad · 12-05-2002, 08:48 PM

Oh, and if the Cloud/Howell campaign spun their sub-20,000 vote total as "oh, we were busy on the TAX question" --

-- then why didn't the "Howell for Senate" full-page ads in the LP News direct people to fund a committee for the question, instead of her campaign?

Firstly, getting 45% on a yes/no question where the "no" means "less taxes" is not something I would seek to take credit for. Unless of course I was seeking it amongst a group that was terribly ignorant about politics...

Secondly, if she did so much for the benefit of the question, would not some of the millions of votes cast as NO lead to coat-tails for her? No, her vote total was tiny.

Sorry to bust yer balls. Someday you'll thank me for it.

Radar · 12-05-2002, 09:37 PM

Wow, an unlabeled chart from an unknown source. Gosh I'm convinced! Convinced you're talking out of your ass.

Quote:

I can be such a dick when I know I'm right.

I have a feeling you don't have to be right to be a dick.

Quote:

-- then why didn't the "Howell for Senate" full-page ads in the LP News direct people to fund a committee for the question, instead of her campaign?

Because the 3 full page ads in the Boston globe explained what Question 1 was and how they should vote on the issue. The LP News ad was to get donations and volunteers for her campaign which is less likely in a Boston globe ad.

Quote:

Firstly, getting 45% on a yes/no question where the "no" means "less taxes" is not something I would seek to take credit for. Unless of course I was seeking it amongst a group that was terribly ignorant about politics...

Getting 45% to remove an entrenched state tax despite millions upon millions being spent to scare people into thinking the state would collapse without it and while having a meager budget is something to be very proud of.

Quote:

Secondly, if she did so much for the benefit of the question, would not some of the millions of votes cast as NO lead to coat-tails for her?

Because Taxachussets isn't a strong state for Republicans and since it was the first election after the highly questionable elections in 2000 voter turnout was extremely low and polarized on the two major parties.

I don't mean to burst your bubble chief but you don't seem to know as much about the LP as you think.

MaggieL · 12-05-2002, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
Wow, an unlabeled chart from an unknown source.

The source isn't unknown...it's from UT. He's actually capable of charting numbers.

Are you challenging his LP membership numbers? Where are yours?

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
The Libertarian party is not only growing but growing faster than any other party. I should know, my efforts are responsible for 1% - 2% of the newly registered Libertarians in the state with the most Libertarians.

Should we be impressed?

Tonight I'm gonna start the Aloysius Party. We currently have one member, me.

I bet by tomorrow, I could have a 300% increase in membership. Then <I>I'd</I> be responsible for the fastest-growing party in America!

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
I have a feeling you don't have to be right to be a dick.

He's got point there, Shepps.

Maybe it's time to change your User Text.. "Sometimes wrong" is getting old; "Such a dick" has a much better ring to it!

wolf · 12-05-2002, 10:55 PM

Radar ... Just remember, Toad DID warn you.

(Sits back, makes popcorn, and prepares to enjoy the fun...)

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
More and more members are leaving the two major parties as they become disenchanted and realize there's virtually no difference between the two parties.

People have been saying that for decades. The system will never change. You'll never get enough people to agree that the two parties are so bad that we need a third.

I consider myself more libertarian (lowercase) than conservative, but I'd only vote Libertarian as a protest vote if the Republican was an idiot.

Even if I thought the Libertarian would do better, I'd still vote Republican, for two reasons:
<OL><LI>I want my vote to count. I know the Libertarian couldn't win, so I won't vote for him. You may disagree with that logic, but that's the way most people who actually vote think.</LI>
<LI>The Ralph Nader effect. In 2000, a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush. Bush is president because of Nader (and Elian Gonzalez, for that matter). Maybe if we had a ranking system instead of voting for one only, the LP would have a snowball's chance in hell. But <I>that</I> will never happen, because the two parties wouldn't want it. It's a vicious cycle, man.
</OL>

12-05-2002, 06:49 PM	#18
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	We are not growing in membership. Put down the glass. Slang, you're mostly sane at least on health care and guns, also any paranoia about Homeland Security is completely justified . __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

12-05-2002, 06:50 PM	#19
Cam dripping with ignorance Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Grand Forks ND Posts: 642	Oh please god no, no gun control debate. __________________ After the seventh beer I generally try and stay away from the keyboard, I apologize for what happens when I fail.

12-05-2002, 10:55 PM	#29
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Radar ... Just remember, Toad DID warn you. (Sits back, makes popcorn, and prepares to enjoy the fun...) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-05-2002, 06:06 PM	#16
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Carla Howell spent most of her time trying to get Question 1 passed. She knew she didn't have a good shot at winning the election so she worked on ending income tax in Taxachussets which is an even greater accomplishment in my book. And she very nearly did it despite having limited funds for radio ads, newspaper ads, etc. and the Globe and other newspapers coming out against her. At the very least she ensured that there will be no tax increase in Taxachussets by the new governor or other people in office this term. Slang: You're correct, gun registration and rectriction laws are both unconstitutional and cost a lot in terms of lives.

12-05-2002, 06:28 PM	#17
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	OK, thanks Radar. Counting you , I think the total number of people here that DONT think I'm delusional is at.....what, 4?

12-05-2002, 07:15 PM	#21
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	The LP is dead, dead, dead. The ideals it stands for have a small and dwindling contituency in the US, and the LP itself hit its high point in 1972. The two-party system in the United States is far too stable and entrenched to be budged using methods available within the system. And it is set up so most outside influences strengthen it as well.

12-05-2002, 07:52 PM	#22
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	The LP is alive and well. In fact we've got the most members and registered voters we've ever had and more elected members than all other third parties combined. There's NOTHING stable about the two major parties. In fact they are bringing instability and even destruction to America and perhaps the world. More and more members are leaving the two major parties as they become disenchanted and realize there's virtually no difference between the two parties.

12-05-2002, 08:41 PM	#23
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There's your "most members and registered voters we've ever had" LP historical membership statistics, dude. I can be such a dick when I know I'm right.

12-05-2002, 08:48 PM	#24
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Oh, and if the Cloud/Howell campaign spun their sub-20,000 vote total as "oh, we were busy on the TAX question" -- -- then why didn't the "Howell for Senate" full-page ads in the LP News direct people to fund a committee for the question, instead of her campaign? Firstly, getting 45% on a yes/no question where the "no" means "less taxes" is not something I would seek to take credit for. Unless of course I was seeking it amongst a group that was terribly ignorant about politics... Secondly, if she did so much for the benefit of the question, would not some of the millions of votes cast as NO lead to coat-tails for her? No, her vote total was tiny. Sorry to bust yer balls. Someday you'll thank me for it.

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