The American Jobs Act - Page 2

BigV · 09-09-2011, 02:16 PM

What do you say classicman about how the American Jobs Act will be paid for? The AP story you linked to is getting nearly universal coverage, due mostly to the fact that it was very early out of the gate. Here are my thoughts.

Clearly, any government spending is paid for by taxes. Of course. Further exploration of this inevitably involves some other factors and we'd be wise to explicitly identify them. Debt, Deficit, Borrowing, Taxes, let's start with these.

Deficit. Since our country is currently operating at a deficit, ALL SPENDING is deficit spending until our country is operating at with a budget surplus. All government spending, including defense, debt service, medicare, just everything, and this program too. The proposal is to pay individuals and companies for various kinds of work and the funds to make such payments will come from mostly from borrowing, and some from tax collections.

Which brings us to debt and borrowing. We, Americans, have a going concern here (so to speak) as a country, we have work that needs to be done; we have contracts we've entered into that obligate us to pay; we have taxes that are due to us (the government); we have earned benefits we've promised to pay, etc etc. Our cash flow is negative. We're spending more than we're collecting. For you and me, this is a death spiral if we persist in it too long. You and I have options, like bankruptcy, or credit cards if it continues beyond our savings cushion. Governments have other options, like borrowing (similar to credit cards for you and me), and printing money (to identify the main ones). You and I can't print money. The government can. And has, it has done both to finance our spending choices to this point. The effect of the money printing has been zero until recently. The only negative result of the printing has been to cause our credit rating to be diminished a little bit. The effect of borrowing has been much more persistent and much more objective. We've accumulated a great deal of debt.

And at the other end of that cash flow pipeline is tax collection. We do collect taxes. The taxes we collect will be used to pay for our spending, and that includes all the debt service (interest to treasury bond holders), all the payroll for all the government employees, all the contracts we've entered, etc.

So. This act will be paid for by taxes, period. The taxes we collect will be used to pay for this program and for all the other things we've committed to to this point. What we haven't discussed yet is the timing of this payment. And there's the undefined area where talking points and pundits etc will be shouting past each other in the coming hours and days.

To be continued...

classicman · 09-09-2011, 03:12 PM

Grrrr - just has a very long post vanish because I got logged out. I fucking HATE that.
I am not a good communicator in writing and spent a lot of time responding. Short version follows....

Quote:

the private sector has vastly more potential to reduce unemployment by hiring more people
Employers hire new people when they can't deliver all the work they have with the staff they have.
The government's ability to effect and affect such actions is indirect

agreed.
One thing the Gov't can do relatively easier is create demand. This can be done by giving people money. (tried that, didn't work)
This can also be done by spending on needed services like INFRASTRUCTURE.
Some of stimulus I was directed at that. I think that was a good plan which was horribly executed. There is too much skimming, kickbacks, waste, fraud ... and preferential treatment given to friends of politicians and whatnot.

classicman · 09-09-2011, 03:15 PM

Post 13 seems like a circular rambling. I'm not getting what you are trying to say.

DanaC · 09-13-2011, 06:00 AM

Did you just call BigV 'kid'?

Clodfobble · 09-13-2011, 09:10 AM

I'm sure he actually meant "goat."

infinite monkey · 09-13-2011, 10:06 AM

[W.C.]He meant goat, seeeee? Go away kid, ya bother me.[Fields]

DanaC · 09-13-2011, 11:47 AM

Politics through the looking glass.

TheMercenary · 09-13-2011, 02:18 PM

.

TheMercenary · 09-13-2011, 02:21 PM

I think I have heard this before...

BigV · 09-13-2011, 02:23 PM

I get it--the President's message is hot air. Cute.

TheMercenary · 09-13-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

I get it--the President's message is hot air. Cute.

Absolutely, the guy is an idiot. I asked earlier, "How is he going to pay for it?". No one knew. And now we know, more of the same BS from this fool. Wealth redistribution. His grand plan is doomed to fail. It will never make it through this Congress. Most everything that has come out of his mouth since the debate over the Debit Ceiling has been nothing more than hot air.

Anyone but Obama in 2012!

09-09-2011, 02:16 PM	#1
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	What do you say classicman about how the American Jobs Act will be paid for? The AP story you linked to is getting nearly universal coverage, due mostly to the fact that it was very early out of the gate. Here are my thoughts. Clearly, any government spending is paid for by taxes. Of course. Further exploration of this inevitably involves some other factors and we'd be wise to explicitly identify them. Debt, Deficit, Borrowing, Taxes, let's start with these. Deficit. Since our country is currently operating at a deficit, ALL SPENDING is deficit spending until our country is operating at with a budget surplus. All government spending, including defense, debt service, medicare, just everything, and this program too. The proposal is to pay individuals and companies for various kinds of work and the funds to make such payments will come from mostly from borrowing, and some from tax collections. Which brings us to debt and borrowing. We, Americans, have a going concern here (so to speak) as a country, we have work that needs to be done; we have contracts we've entered into that obligate us to pay; we have taxes that are due to us (the government); we have earned benefits we've promised to pay, etc etc. Our cash flow is negative. We're spending more than we're collecting. For you and me, this is a death spiral if we persist in it too long. You and I have options, like bankruptcy, or credit cards if it continues beyond our savings cushion. Governments have other options, like borrowing (similar to credit cards for you and me), and printing money (to identify the main ones). You and I can't print money. The government can. And has, it has done both to finance our spending choices to this point. The effect of the money printing has been zero until recently. The only negative result of the printing has been to cause our credit rating to be diminished a little bit. The effect of borrowing has been much more persistent and much more objective. We've accumulated a great deal of debt. And at the other end of that cash flow pipeline is tax collection. We do collect taxes. The taxes we collect will be used to pay for our spending, and that includes all the debt service (interest to treasury bond holders), all the payroll for all the government employees, all the contracts we've entered, etc. So. This act will be paid for by taxes, period. The taxes we collect will be used to pay for this program and for all the other things we've committed to to this point. What we haven't discussed yet is the timing of this payment. And there's the undefined area where talking points and pundits etc will be shouting past each other in the coming hours and days. To be continued... __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

09-09-2011, 03:15 PM	#3
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Post 13 seems like a circular rambling. I'm not getting what you are trying to say. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

09-13-2011, 09:10 AM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I'm sure he actually meant "goat." __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

09-13-2011, 02:18 PM	#8
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

09-13-2011, 02:21 PM	#9
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I think I have heard this before... Attached Images __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

09-13-2011, 10:06 AM	#6
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	[W.C.]He meant goat, seeeee? Go away kid, ya bother me.[Fields]

09-13-2011, 02:23 PM	#10
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I get it--the President's message is hot air. Cute. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

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