Both Cars Broke Down Today

[Beest]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You need to perform electrolysis and separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water. Both will help combustion.

so throw a 9V battery in the tank, gotcha.


Googling around water in the line seems a good possibilty and for $2 I can buy a little bottle of gas antifreeze that should help clear it out, worth a try.

[jimhelm]

given the start of this happened when the car was low on fuel, I agree with the clogged fuel filter assessment. happens to my home heating oil if I run out too.

[sexobon]

I hope you find a simple solution; but, just in case ...

The next time your vehicle won't start, look under the hood to see if the starter is actually turning the engine over and not just cranking away by itself (it's hard to discern by sound from inside the vehicle). A broken starter gear tooth can cause an erratic failure just like monster described. You'd be at the mercy of the random alignment of gears each time the engine is shut off, that they wouldn't align on the broken tooth, for each subsequent start up. Repeated starting attempts may eventually realign the gears; but, perhaps not always before the battery goes dead. If it's this starter problem, your other troubleshooting will be in vain.

[BigV]

yes, good sexobon.

A further examination of the starter should include a check of the solenoid, the part the pushes the starter motor's pinion gear into contact with the ring gear on the flywheel. It could be turning, but not engaging.

In sexobon's scenario, the failure like this would happen if there were a missing tooth on the ring gear, not the pinion gear. THAT is big f*ckin trouble, you really don't want that. But in my experience, those gears are pretty tough, more likely the solenoid isn't thrusting the pinion forward.

Another no start situation/sound is when you turn the key and you get clickclickclickclickclick... this is the starter failing. bad wire, weak battery, weak solenoid, actually stuck starter motor (rap sharply with hammer/rock while cursing to solve/diagnose--don't ask).

Ok, don't want to get off topic too far. Good luck.

[Nirvana]

The next time it happens, take a hose off the intake manifold and shoot some carburetor cleaner inside it. Try to start it and if it starts right up, you have a fuel problem. If it doesn't, take off a plug wire and stick an old spark plug on it. Lay it on something metal so you have a ground and crank it. There should be a nice, bright blue spark. If not, you have an ignition problem. Or its a fuel filter I am not a mechanic but have played one when necessary...

[jimhelm]

It might be the flux capacitor. Posssssssibly the framitization module....

[zippyt]

Those damn Muffler bearing go out All the time !!!

[monster]

No failure today And not taking it to the shop tomorrow. One car repair is enough for one week. If it fails to start while beest's out of town, I'm leaving the git where it lies and walking home for the Focus. so there.

[HungLikeJesus]

So now Beest just has to find the nearest metho lab.

[monster]

Today it failed to start the first time twice -but neither was very convincing ...more of an oh mom do i really have to get up.... so I hit the gas hard as I turned the key on the second go and it was fine. We're going to sit this one out -and beest put Heet in the fuel tonight. Before pissing off to the UP and leaving me with both dodgy cars....

[tw]

Originally Posted by monster

Today it failed to start the first time twice -

The Car Guys often ask this question. And the answer is too often, "Yes". Is the check engine light on?

[Beest]

Originally Posted by tw

The Car Guys often ask this question. And the answer is too often, "Yes". Is the check engine light on?

No,

this stuff was 2 bottles for $4


so I chucked one in , it's basically Isopropyl (Rubbing) alcohol I think.
I believe the water dissolves in the IPA which can the run through and burn off. So if it's in the filter it should pick it up and as we work through the tank.

Plugs, wires, battery and alternator are new.

Working the throttle seems to fix it. likes it's stuck.
In modern vehicles is there a separate line for the choke, or is it all done with one throttle.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beest

In modern vehicles is there a separate line for the choke, or is it all done with one throttle.

A choke was how to throw massive amounts of gasoline into an engine that would otherwise not start. A 1930 technology called fuel injection made that and so many other functions all obsolete.

Your injection measures the entering air. Views other parameters. Then spits in the best amount of gasoline required. In a previous discussion (maybe April 2010) with Cloud, one simple control system was perverted so that idle would fail intermittently. Your subjective summary describes failure in the same system. But you have no reason to believe your system failure is a same part.

Problems reported by the check engine light are always easy to find and fix. Your's is apparently more complex because even the check engine diagnostics do not see it.

Engine performs differently when the throttle is fully open verses when closed. Different parameters and sensors cause different amounts of fuel to be spit into the engine. Apparently your intermittent involves sensors that are significant at idle and not significant when the throttle is more open. Without check engine codes, the number of suspects increases drastically.

Sometimes a service bulletin will define this failure. A previous vehicle had the same problems that the check engine diagnostic did not see. Only better mechanics read and learn from these. Some libraries also provide access to them (online) for all manufacturers.

Possible is a significant parameter stored in the computer. And therefore would be identified by a better mechanic or a smarter computer diagnostic. Some dealers may temporarily install a computer to your diagnostic port so that relevant parameters can be collected when the car will not start. Then a human can see what the check engine diagnostic did not.

Information posted that provided useful replies is that it starts when the throttle is not in idle. Expand on that concept to define specifically what is done to make the engine start. Turn a subjective post into something more quantitative. Playing around with the throttle says almost nothing. Details of what is 'played with' will go a long way to isolating an intermittent to a computer subsystem or sensor.

Also relevant are other details such as the angle of the car everytime it does not start? Pointed up hill, downhill, tilted left of right, etc. Engine overnight cold. Or just partially cool? Attitude of the neighbor's cat? How far to the nearest prankster's house?

Biggest reason for no solution is insufficient information and too much information that is only subjective.

Water in gasoline was way down the list among the least likely suspects along with that cat.

Hi there just a simple reminders....Stay cool and be nice to other people.

[infinite monkey]

Thank you laya2. We can always use simple reminders like that.

Welcome to the Cellar and enjoy your stay.