Apparently, it is a clown car...

[Clodfobble]

It's the poweh of the Lawd!!

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I wouldn't want to be part of their family, but I give them credit for their self-discipline.

Okay, snipped, because you mentioned work ethic.
But I don't really see any self discipline there.
In another time, another place they could not support a family that size. There is a reason why sons worked the land and daughters used to be married out young. Neither are allowed these days.

And I don't believe a child with more than 10 siblings can really get a decent amount of love and guidance from their parents. In the past they would have had it from their older siblings (my Grandmother was effectively a parent to her younger siblings from the age of 12) but that is not the way of the world now. If the siblings demur, what happens then?

If God had wanted women to spawn endlessly He'd have provided infinite resources.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Sundae

And I don't believe a child with more than 10 siblings can really get a decent amount of love and guidance from their parents. In the past they would have had it from their older siblings (my Grandmother was effectively a parent to her younger siblings from the age of 12) but that is not the way of the world now. If the siblings demur, what happens then?

I dunno, watching the special I was pretty convinced that these are children who march in a line flawlessly. The whole house ran like a well-oiled machine, and everyone participated in large-scale organized chores (which they referred to as the child's "jurisdiction," as in, laundry is John and Janice's jurisdiction, while daily cooking is Jocelyn and Jacob and Jared's jurisdiction.) They had video interviews where even the younger kids talked clearly and thoughtfully about morality and a responsibility to help others and all that.

But as to whether each child can really get enough love or attention in this setup, I have no idea. I'd suspect not, which is why I wouldn't really want to be part of their family, myself. But they are most definitely getting guidance and discipline. It reminds me of my mom's friend who adopted a daughter from a large orphanage in Russia. For the first several months, the little girl kept following behind her new mother, cleaning up after her and even doing stuff like washing the floors and asking where the toilet brush was. It became obvious later that she also had emotional neglect issues, but she was very, very self-disciplined.

[Sundae]

I was referring specifically to love and attention from the parent. Parenting.
I was not suggesting that the children grew up without any love or without a sense of responsibility.

Re your Mum's friend - good on her.
But there are real issues with adopting children from overseas orphanages.
If the babies do not receive nuture and comfort in pre-speech years, they can miss out on the ability to bond and socialise, and that cannot be taught or loved away later.

One of the reasons I support contraception and abortion.

[Trilby]

i think anybody who births 20 children has some sort of mental disease.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Brianna

i think anybody who births 20 children has some sort of mental disease.

Yup:

"We really believe we are following our faith

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Sundae

I was referring specifically to love and attention from the parent. Parenting.
I was not suggesting that the children grew up without any love or without a sense of responsibility.

Oh I misunderstood, I thought you were taking issue with the self-discipline of the children, rather than the parents. I agree, I feel that it would be essentially impossible for a mother to spend a meaningful amount of one-on-one time with 19 children in the house.

Originally Posted by Sundae

Re your Mum's friend - good on her.
But there are real issues with adopting children from overseas orphanages.
If the babies do not receive nuture and comfort in pre-speech years, they can miss out on the ability to bond and socialise, and that cannot be taught or loved away later.

Oh yes, I agree. The child I mentioned, as well as every other one I have known that was adopted from overseas, had major psychological issues to contend with. It's one of the reasons that we decided early on not to adopt from overseas (back when we thought adoption might be our only option,) because it's impossible to adopt a foreign baby less than 6 months old, and by then the damage is done.

[Aliantha]

My father comes from a family of 7 kids. They're all half crazy, but I think it's an inherited thing. My Nana was always a bit loopy. She probably would have been better off stopping at one or two kids.

Alternatively, there are lots of families I know who have 4 or 5 kids, and no one seems to miss out.

It's amazing how as a parent, you think you couldn't possibly love another child as much as you love the first one that appears, but then you have the next and voila! You love it just as much. Same with the third. I see no reason to think that feeling of love for a child you give birth to would stop or lessen as the number of kids goes up.

If they're supporting their own family and not relying on anyone giving them handouts, then I'd say they've got it pretty right as parents and maybe we could all take a leaf out of their book.

We all spend too much time judging others who choose a different path, and although I'm thankful that the general trend is for families to have less children, the odd anomaly is ok with me.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

It's amazing how as a parent, you think you couldn't possibly love another child as much as you love the first one that appears, but then you have the next and voila! You love it just as much.

You love it just as much, of course, but do you have enough time to show that love? For example, they are on average going to be celebrating a child's birthday in the house every 2 and a half weeks. I can't imagine that feels particularly special.

[Aliantha]

I guess it's what you're used to, and honestly, how much time do any of us spend actually just loving our children. Isn't it the things you do for your family that show your love and commitment to them? How long does it take to give your child a hug? Not long, but it usually means the world to them.

I just think we all live our lives according to what's most important to us and our ideals. Different people have different opinions about what's ideal. There's no doubt in my mind that what large families lose in some ways like being able to go to theme parks and out to dinner, they gain by knowing they've always got someone to hang around with and do stuff with. There'll always be someone who can help them out and get them on their way.

None of us can have everything, but we all can have different things. I think there'd be just as many pro's and con's living in a large family as there are living in a small one.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

My father comes from a family of 7 kids. They're all half crazy, but I think it's an inherited thing. My Nana was always a bit loopy. She probably would have been better off stopping at one or two kids.

Alternatively, there are lots of families I know who have 4 or 5 kids, and no one seems to miss out.

It's amazing how as a parent, you think you couldn't possibly love another child as much as you love the first one that appears, but then you have the next and voila! You love it just as much. Same with the third. I see no reason to think that feeling of love for a child you give birth to would stop or lessen as the number of kids goes up.

If they're supporting their own family and not relying on anyone giving them handouts, then I'd say they've got it pretty right as parents and maybe we could all take a leaf out of their book.

We all spend too much time judging others who choose a different path, and although I'm thankful that the general trend is for families to have less children, the odd anomaly is ok with me.

Well said....

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

We all spend too much time judging others who choose a different path, and although I'm thankful that the general trend is for families to have less children, the odd anomaly is ok with me.

Hold my hands up to that. But I am probably more judgemental on here simply because it is a place to air opinions.

Personally I think the need to spawn like a frog should be a don't ask don't tell matter

[infinite monkey]

@ Sundae.

I'd spay and neuter all y'all if'n I could.

Seriously, the mindless procreation thing is beyond me, but I like kids and am heartened by the loving and good parents on the board.

[Trilby]

I like how Merc likes Ali's post but if someone dares to choose a different path from Merc's (specifically How to Live and How to Vote) they are Goddamn Fools.

I like it when people are raving hypocrites and don't know it.

[Aliantha]

I think he probably liked the bit about not relying on handouts the most.