How a city works...

[classicman]

Each time as the politics kicked in, each Chief resigned or was forced out, primarily by actions of the Police Union.

There is one other constant there... jus sayin'

[Lamplighter]

NY Times
ANNIE LOWREY
5/22/12

Oregon Study Shows Benefits, and Price, for Newly Insured

But in 2008, Oregon opened its Medicaid rolls to some working-age adults living in poverty,
like Ms. Parris. Lacking the money to cover everyone, the state established a lottery,
and Ms. Parris was one of the 89,824 residents who entered in the hope of winning insurance.

With that lottery, Oregon became a laboratory for studying the effects
of extending health insurance to people who previously did not have it.
Health economists say the state has become the single best place to study
a question at the center of debate in Washington as the Supreme Court prepares to rule,
likely next week, on the constitutionality of President Obama’s health care law:
What are the costs and benefits of coverage?<snip>

For the nation, the lesson appears to be mixed.
Expanded coverage brings large benefits to many people,
but it is also more likely to increase a stretched federal government’s long-term budget responsibilities.

The newly insured were more likely to describe their health as good,
and to say that their health was getting better, according to self-reported data
that researchers are now combining with objective measurements for a deeper follow-up study.
The uninsured reported being in worse physical and mental shape and were less likely to describe themselves as happy.

Getting insurance also had powerful financial effects, the study showed.
The insured were 25 percent less likely to have an unpaid medical bill
sent to a collection agency and 40 percent less likely to borrow money
or skip paying other bills in order to cover their medical costs.
<snip>

[Glinda]

Here's something else Portland/Oregon can be proud of...


In Vancouver, Washington, this costs $39.65



Three miles away, in Portland, Oregon, it costs $19.45 (Still too expensive, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick). Ciggies cost twice as much in Washington, too. Fuckers.

[Lamplighter]

Three miles away, in Portland, Oregon, it costs $19.45 (Still too expensive, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick). Ciggies cost twice as much in Washington, too. Fuckers.

Why Glinda, how can you be so critical of capitalism ?

Washington just did away with their "state-owned" liquor stores.
Oregon is still that bastion of socialism with hard liquor sold only in the state-operated liquor stores.

[Lamplighter]

It takes a lot of beer to get make up $400,000


Portland Tribune
8/30/13
Bar fined $400K for keeping transgenders away

A north Portland bar owner will have to pay a big fine,
after the state finds he tried to keep some cross-dressing transgender customers away.

Chris Penner is owner of the Twilight Room Annex, formally known as the “P Club.”
Bureau of Labor and Industries investigators found Penner left voice mails
asking the customers to not come to his bar, fearing people would think it’s a gay bar.

BOLI has now ruled that Penner pay $400,000 to the group of people he banned.
He’ll also has been ordered to pay a $5,000 penalty for violating the “Oregon Equality Act.”

The Oregon Equality Act is...

In 2007, the State of Oregon enacted the Oregon Equality Act (also known as SB2),
the landmark law to protect lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people
from discrimination. <snip>

Q What does this anti-discrimination law cover?
A The Oregon Equality Act forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation
or gender identity or expression in several critical areas

► Employment in all state, municipal and private workplaces
► Public accommodations, meaning places open to the public such as businesses that
sell goods or services, recreational facilities and providers of medical services
► Housing and financial transactions such as real estate rental and sales, as well as
applications for credit and insurance
► Jury service
► State institutions such as prisons, jails or any facility operated by the Department of
Corrections
► Foster parenting and the provision of adult foster care
► Public school education, including public charter schools

But Oregon does not yet allow same sex marriage.
The issue will likely be on the 2014 ballot.

[xoxoxoBruce]

So because he tried to keep them away by being civil, rather than a confrontation, he hung himself. Guess that'll send a message to other business owners.

[classicman]

Also from that article ... located immediately after the (snip)

The insured also spend more on health care, dashing some hopes of preventive-medicine advocates
who have argued that coverage can save money — by keeping people out of emergency rooms, for instance.
In Oregon, the newly insured spent an average of $778 a year, or 25 percent, more on health care than those
who did not win insurance.

hmmm...

[classicman]

and furthermore ...
“The study put to rest two incorrect arguments that persisted because of an absence of evidence,”

“The first is that Medicaid doesn’t do anything for people, because it’s bad insurance or
because the uninsured have other ways of getting care,” Ms. Baicker said. “The second is that
Medicaid coverage saves money” by increasing preventive care, for instance.

[Lamplighter]

Dwellars should read the entire article.
Below are the entire paragraphs of Classic's quotes...

In a continuing study, an all-star group of researchers
following Ms. Parris and tens of thousands of other Oregonians has found
that gaining insurance makes people feel healthier, happier and more financially stable.
The insured also spend more on health care, dashing some hopes of preventive-medicine advocates
who have argued that coverage can save money — by keeping people out of emergency rooms, for instance.
In Oregon, the newly insured spent an average of $778 a year, or 25 percent, more on health care than those
who did not win insurance.

“The study put to rest two incorrect arguments
that persisted because of an absence of evidence,”said Katherine Baicker,
a Harvard economist who worked on the study and served as an economic adviser to President George W. Bush.
“The first is that Medicaid doesn’t do anything for people, because it’s bad insurance or
because the uninsured have other ways of getting care,” Ms. Baicker said. “The second is that
Medicaid coverage saves money” by increasing preventive care, for instance.
“It’s up to society to determine whether it’s worth the cost,” she added.

If you are an economist, $ is unfortunately your only unit of measure.
To say that the uninsured have other ways of getting care is discussed in this same article...

Most of the uninsured described their lack of coverage as a profound problem.
<snip>
Interviews with study participants showed that the insured and the uninsured
got health care in significantly different ways. Lottery winners tended to have
a primary care physician who saw them regularly and helped them navigate the health care system.
In contrast, few of the uninsured saw doctors regularly, and none said that they had regular health examinations.
<snip>
The uninsured described borrowing medication from family members and friends,
taking it every other day, and asking doctors to diagnose multiple conditions
and write multiple prescriptions on a single visit.

The insured said they had largely abandoned such strategies.

Certainly, health care costs more than no health care at all. But better health,
being happier, and financial stability are just some of the basic outcomes of health care
... regardless of how it is financed.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Dwellars should read the entire article.
Below are the entire paragraphs of Classic's quotes...

Thanks, I don't think I missed anything of relevance, I certainly didn't cherrypick.

Certainly, health care costs more than no health care at all. But better health, being happier, and financial stability are just some of the basic outcomes of health care ... regardless of how it is financed.

Agreed. BUT we were sold on this saving money and being LESS expensive. That has been undeniable proven false.
Even the latest CBO study has shown that. AND it could get FAR WORSE as described by the insurance death spiral which many are predicting will happen.

Personally, I don't believe letting the insurance lobbyists have so much control over this was the right solution.
Healthcare for all, NOT insurance insurance for all, is the only viable solution. The only way I see that happening and costing less is to not have insurance companies as they now exist, and even more so - to NOT allow the providers and suppliers to name whatever price they want.

[Lamplighter]

Thanks, I don't think I missed anything of relevance, I certainly didn't cherrypick.

Obviously, I feel you did.

Personally, I don't believe letting the insurance lobbyists
have so much control over this was the right solution.
Healthcare for all, NOT insurance insurance for all, is the only viable solution.
The only way I see that happening and costing less is to not have
insurance companies as they now exist, and even more so
- to NOT allow the providers and suppliers to name whatever price they want.

Wouldn't that be an attack on capitalism and physicians' way of life ?
I thought I was the only closeted socialist on this forum

It's funny... but not really... that for some it's never quite good enough,
or it was not done the right way, or it is not the right time to do it.
The only governmental program that I know of that even
comes close to meeting such criteria is the "Do Not Call" list.

More seriously, the main reason I posted this article is that Oregon
has progressively amended this State's Medicare funding to cover
heterogeneous populations, to bring about better physical and mental health outcomes.

Health insurance coverage for all children was the first step.
Unfortunately there are not sufficient funds in the State's Medicare pot
to cover everyone, so the lottery was implemented.
It now serves yet another purpose of research studies

The warm and fuzzy social outcomes, such as families not having bills
turned over to collection agencies or not being evicted for non-payment of rent
have hidden costs that do not get into the spread sheets, but they are real for the families.
With time and research, I believe these benefits will become part of the "economic equation"

[classicman]

[quote=Lamplighter;816574]Obviously, I feel you did.
Oh really? Which part specifically?

Wouldn't that be an attack on capitalism and physicians' way of life ?

I don't think healthcare belongs in the business sector.

The warm and fuzzy social outcomes, such as families not having bills turned over to collection agencies
or not being evicted for non-payment of rent have hidden costs that do not get into the spread sheets,
but they are real for the families.
With time and research, I believe these benefits will become part of the "economic equation"

So will all the added costs associated.
I do not think we are that far apart in our views and our desired end results are even closer.

[xoxoxoBruce]

While I support the notion of universal health care for American citizens, I have no obligation to be concerned if everyone is happy.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Without the Willamette Falls locks, commercial shipping and recreational boating is severely restricted to the south of Portland for the remainder of the Willamette River.

The locks have been primarily used for recreational purposes, meaning a low funding priority,
since the 1970s when log rafts became a rarity.

[Lamplighter]

Yes, primarily recreational now.

But until the locks were closed for longer "repair" periods,
there was still some commercial traffic to Salem and even Albany
... reduced, and not as much as while logging was still going strong,
but commercial tugs did not cease completely.
Also, one large ship/barge-builder in PDX required use of the locks,
but then moved away when the periods of lock operations became erratic.