Why is it ok to treat women like shit?

[monster]

I have to agree with Stormie and others, though. It's unpleasant, but this is the interwebs. It's not "real life". And you can bet your bottom dollar the culprits are kinda henpecked/over-mothered IRL.

Unless you want a heavily moderated forum, there's not a lot you can do, especially on a no ad forum supported by donations. Unless you're rich.
So, not a lot you can do to change it, but you can refuse to let it piss you off.

I prefer the no ads and crap-to-be-ignored over heavy moderation and sponsor-pleasing content, myself. And I've actually been more productive IRL since there's been more mysogynistic crap to be ignored, but Grav wasn't the main culprit for me.

[Pico and ME]

It doesnt hurt to voice our displeasure, though. I dont get upset, but I do get disapointed that some threads turn into mostly playboy-type posts. At least now its being kept in the NSFW Motivational Poster thread. It should really be renamed the 'Pictures to
Titillate the Adolescent Male" thread.

[infinite monkey]

I don't really see a problem, if posted in nsfw. I don't have to like it and I can ignore it.

Because truthfully? Some women allow themselves to be objectified, and some men like that crap. Some call it ' brave.' I call it allowing yourself to be an object.

[Flint]

Because suck it.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Respect is to be earned, not demanded.

I know you're not serious here, Sexo. But I hear this from teens all the time and it really sticks in my craw. I automatically accord respect and courtesy to all people. They can lose it of course, mostly through behaviour towards me and other people. But I am never arrogant enough to assume anyone needs to earn it; as if I am some sort of arbiter of what is what it means to be a human being.

[Griff]

Right on Sundae. If we approach it the other way society becomes pretty coarse. I had my disrespectful niece and nephew at the beginning of this vacation. I had to "parent" them pretty hard, things that should already be in place for everyone's zen were lacking. Their Gramma appreciated the support as they had worn her out with their disrespect, bickering, and fighting when she was on her own. If they don't figure it out eventually they're going to be left out of a lot of things.

[Trilby]

First off: Happy Bastille Day everyone.

Now. Allow me to 'splain since some of you are in the dark.

I have fundamentally changed as a person since I have joined this board. I am a different person altogether. I DID indeed post those pics of myself and it was for the wrong reasons but I wouldn't do it today. Does that satisfy or do you need more detail?

The line about misogynistic crap all over this board was not fair. Not everyone here, certainly, is like that. I humbly apologize to those males who took offense. Even those females who took offense. I should have been more specific in my criticism. I meant Grav, of course. Yes, I can put him on 'ignore'. Yes, I am responsible for my own anger and feelings of helplessness and disgust when I see over and over and over how he demeans women. It really is my own problem. It's just that last evening I'd reached my limit and I said so. Photo after photo after photo of T&A like, someone said, an adolescent male fantasy world. Really fucking boring. And no, I do NOT want to see an equal number of cocks picutred on this board. It's all just so....yawn. But every once in a while it gets intolerably annoying. That's where I was coming from last night.

And UT? If you can't see that I am NOT the same woman who posted those pics of herself (titties only!!) I am saddened. I respect you and your opinion (for some reason, I do) and I wish you could see that I am different. But if you can't, that's ok. I know I am different. That is what really matters.

[infinite monkey]

Oh hell, I get sick of seeing that shit too. But I get sick of seeing what I see everywhere: women who are 6 feet tall and 120 pounds and gorgeous and perfect. It's bullshit. It's why women struggle so with self-esteem.

And it's why I have always insisted on being talked to for WHO I am, not what I look like. It's why I want to barf every time someone posts a pic that has some of the guys slurping and snorting and rooting about. It's disgusting.

But I'm not mad at Grav. I've come to terms with the fact that he doesn't get why it might be offensive to some.

There's a lot of offensive crap here and an awful lot of selective indignation (not you Bri.)

Selective indignation offends the shit out of me.

And Bri, you have changed and you're a lovely person.

[Undertoad]

Well Bri you are now addressing Ibby and Monster because they saw all that differently somehow. They figured that the you who objectified yourself was the same you posting here and/or that you weren't presenting your pics to be objectified, or whatever. (even though I can state with full confidence that I objectified you only for a very short moment and then went off and sought better pics of other women whom I did not know personally and thus could fully objectify)

But now, help us out here: do you have some kind of contempt for the earlier you?

~

It's all very confusing for us guys because you see, that type of objectification is the entire reason we are here, as a species. Male sexual response is simple and entirely driven by the reptile brain. We absolutely have no concept that it is somehow bad that we would desire to see a particularly nice set and even share them. The idea that it is somehow demeaning to other women because one of them has a nice ass and we want to see it is ridiculous to us. I don't think of you any less because last night I went to youporn and looked at some of the most filthiest high def videos of women doing absolutely filthy things. I objectified the shit out of them and now here we are in the morning talking intelligently about all kids of stuff. I don't get it, was that wrong of me? Should I not share that part of me? Because it's a part of all of us. Should I not look at them until I've worked out whether they are decent people? Do I need my porn stars to talk? Is it bad that these women are probably damaged goods with terrible, abusive, or non-present fathers? Should I only look at porn from women who have a happy childhood? Is there anyone on earth who does not simply want to be desired, no matter whether it's for their body or their mind? And Bri, aren't your changes partly hormonal? Is this a version of you that would not have gotten your tits out at age 20 or whatever?

(I know that when Tiki got her tits out I respected her a lot less, if that means anything, because I was (finally) mature enough to realize she was attention-whoring and trying to be provocative, and I don't like my reptile brain being used that way.)

The hard questions.

[Trilby]

Being a woman, I am probably more hormonally driven than a man. Probably. When I was young I certainly had as much interest in sex as the guys did. My lizard brain wanted sex, too, and wanted, in some weird way, I am sure, to make babies. I was very, very sexual as a teen/young woman. LOVED the sex, thank you very much. Do I have contempt for this younger, sexier self? No. I only have love and understanding for her. And a little bit of sorriness for her, too. Sooooooo stupid! But here's the thing I think: I grew along and grew into something more than a baby making machine. It took forever and it's still taking place now and YES I'm sure it has to do with cancer and surgery and being 48 which is a crone in this country and a huge relief as well. Women become mothers and then...for some of them, the sex thing changes. Our focus is on the infant and not the man. Biology.

I used to watch some pretty filthy porn. I thought porn was OK. Still do. As long as nobody gets hurt and scares the horses...you know, all that. Do whatever kinky thing you want but must you, MUST YOU shove in my face? Must I open every NSFW and see tits and ass and demeaning comments about parking bikes in butts? Is that all you've got? Coz, like all porn and transgressive material, that shit gets old fast. And it's hard to sometimes not take it personally. Like: Here's what you're good for. For fucking. For just simply fucking and fuck you and do what I say and be submissive and just shut up about it becaused Immma spurt in your mouf, beeeeeetch. That's how it feels sometimes to me. And you're asking me to shut up about it.

You're right. Male sexual response IS indeed simple. Indeed lizard-like. I guess I am expecting too much.

If there is one thing I have learned it's this: Lower your expectations and expect craziness.

thanks for reinforcing that lesson.

as far as porn stars - I've no idea what is wrong or right about them, damaged or not. I imagine they come from a variety of backgrounds. Enjoy it. Nobody is stopping you.

[Undertoad]

And you're asking me to shut up about it.

No I'm just asking the hard questions. I love this thread.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

No I'm just asking the hard questions. I love this thread.

I'm glad you like it.

Have I answered any of your questions?

After contemplating it for a bit here, I think it's the boring-ness, same old, same old that is getting under my skin. The absolute boredom of witnessing the adolescent male brain. Ever see that hilarious clip of Andy Samburg as a teenaged boy directing all the freaky sex scenes in Game of Thrones? All he wants to do is see sex, boobs, ass, more sex, girl on girl, etc. etc. and it's very funny as he plays this 13 year old boy who is directing this stuff. "Sexposition" instead of 'exposition' they call it.

Yes, darling. I've seen boobies and cunts before. Yes, it's all very interesting and makes you feel funny 'down there' doesn't it? Can we move along now? No? You want to see more? For the rest of your LIFE?

Oh, ok. I'll just be over here. Becoming a human being.

eta: back to the original argument - why is it okay to define women by their sex organs but not other people by their skin color? Why is nigger a No No word while degrading women is OK? Why? Did John Lennon have it right?

[DanaC]

Totally get where you're coming from Bri. From time totime it gets under my skin a bit too. Much as I am happy to banter with Grav, some of the stuff puts my hackles up.

Naming his girlfriend 'baby' on the boards really makes me wanna throw up a little in my mouth, but that's their gig I guess.

The deeply objectifying nature of some of the commentary around the pics is what makes them annoying I think. I had exactly the same response to yet another comment about parking bikes in girl's butts.


There was a time I used to comment about it. But I got sick of being the 'killjoy'.

[SamIam]

I seldom visit the NSFW threads or anything resembling them. I'm simply not interested and the few times I viewed them, I found them demeaning. I'm sure if I "read" those threads on a regular basis I'd be pretty disgusted too. I'll grant UT's point that men tend to be the visual ones of the species and enjoy looking at stuff that make many women feel like objects, as well as lowering our self esteem. No real woman looks like the air brushed, photo-shopped creatures with the breast implants from Mars who star in the porn mags or the NSFW threads.

But I really don't care if men (or women) on the Cellar like viewing and contributing to those threads. Whatever floats your boat. Sometimes this stuff over flows into other threads, but short of censorship, what are you going to do? Frankly, I wish Big Sarge would stop urging female dwellers to post nude or scantily clad pix of themselves. I find such exhortations tiresome, but Big Sarge has his redeeming qualities, so I have never called him on it until this thread.

I wish all the men here could be like xoxoxoBruce. He lets female dwellers know that he appreciates the feminine form, but he never makes a woman feel ashamed or harassed about it. He's like a gentleman contemplating the pleasures of a fine wine. Take a page out of his book guys, and we women will love you to death.

[DanaC]

See, now we all draw our lines in different places :p

Never bothers me if one of the dwellar men make a lewd comment about me, or anythng like that...it makes me feel good. It's a way of them saying to us that they find us sexy. Even if they don't! lol. At least that is real guys saying to real gals that they're sexy. Which, given most of us are just ordinary women with the lumps and bumps and wrinkles that often leave us feeling like we don't cut the mustard next to the airbrushed models we see all around us, I think is kind of sweet. Inclusive, I'd say.


It's the more abstract stuff that bothers me.