What the Cellar looks like to me

[Undertoad]

In Pennsylvania, the major parties used the legal system to kick all* third-party candidates off the ballot.

I wasn't even going to vote for any of them - probably -

Ah but look at me getting political just because this isn't the Politics section.



*with a few really minor exceptions at state rep and lower levels

[BigV]

Originally Posted by SteveDallas

If you're sad because of what it says about the current situation, sure. If you're sad about UT not voting, I'd disagree.

If UT said he was going to vote for Obama, we would all (OK, most of us) say that's cool, you made your choice.

If he said he was going to vote for Romney, we would all (OK, most of us) say that's cool, you made you choice.

If he said he was going to vote for any other candidate, many of us would try to convince him he's "wasting his vote." But in the end, we'd say that's cool, you made your choice.

Having seen UT post about politics for years (decades), I know he's more informed about the political process than the average bear. If he's read the tea leaves and decided not to vote, then I for one say, "that's cool, you made your choice."

And I say that without a trace of sarcasm (which is unusual for me). No candidate, no party, is entitled to your vote.

Hey SD! Good to see you again.

Your opinion on my feelings is all yours. His post about not voting is sad on a number of counts. Since I agree with you about Undertoad being well informed, his "experiment" about not voting, while still being "his choice" will not be without effect. I don't really care who he votes for. I've been a proselytizer for voting for a looong time. I'm a big fan of our political structure, warts and all. But it *requires* voters, and the more high quality, high information voters, like Undertoad, the better.

Surely there are issues on the ballot besides the Main Event that deserve critical consideration. I don't know about his local ballot, I haven't seen it. But this stuff matters. Even if he votes against!

Originally Posted by Lazarus Long

If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and measures you want to vote for... But there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.
If this is too blind for your taste, consult some well-meaning fool (there is always one around) and ask his advice. Then vote the other way. This enables you to be a good citizen (if such is your wish) without spending the enormous amount of time that truly intelligent exercise of the franchise requires.

On my ballot there are some titanic issues like legalizing marriage for everyone regardless of sex, the decriminalization of up to an ounce of marijuana, the authorization of charter schools, a levy for a new seawall, etc, etc. None of these have candidates or parties, but they're still important.

If he doesn't want a mainline party candidate, write one in, assuming that's permitted in PA, it is in WA.

And lastly, voting is my express participation in our civic culture. I'm a part of it, it affects me, and I want to have an effect on it. It's a good habit.

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I don't even open the threads so after I've read the Cellar, it looks like this.

My OCD won't let me do that. When I've read what I want out of a forum, I use the Mark this forum read menu.

[BigV]

I have the same itch Pete, but I scratch each one individually. walking down the tree.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm not curious because I am experimenting with giving up all forms of politics including voting.

I could remind you of all those who fought, many of whom died, to preserve your right to vote and that not voting would relegate you to national ingrate status. I'm not going to do that; but, if you don't vote, I'll never tell you how old I am.

[limey]

Pete! How the debbil are you!?!

Sent by thought transference.

[Griff]

I'll fall in with the no party is entitled to your vote line. The part about skipping the political section does some good by avoiding people at their worst but sometimes the political is personal like here and you miss something important.

[Undertoad]

sexobon age reference noted: he still believes that voting is an honor to Democracy, greater than the various ways Democracy has been shat upon by the powers that be. That means he still follows the ideals of the Greatest Generation and so was probably parented by them. He does not contain the cynicism of Gen X and later. He's a Boomer.

My ballot access complaint is not trivial. 100,000 Pennsylvania voters and 40,000 ballot access petition signatories were strategically disenfranchised before the election began. To participate in this process means to accept pretend that the resulting election is fair and representational. The people who died for that notion have already been shit on. In some ways, if I vote, I'm shitting on them too.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

<snip>
My ballot access complaint is not trivial. 100,000 Pennsylvania voters and 40,000 ballot access petition signatories were strategically disenfranchised before the election began. To participate in this process means to accept pretend that the resulting election is fair and representational. The people who died for that notion have already been shit on. In some ways, if I vote, I'm shitting on them too.

UT, I'm glad you posted this last paragraph.
I had completely misunderstood your reason(s) for boycotting the politics threads.

I would agree and join you, but in reality it is only by participating
in your local elections that such situations can be changed.

There's still the old election cliche: "THROW THE BASTARDS OUT"

[Undertoad]

In 2008 it was the Democrats who made the legal challenge and threw the third parties off. This year it was the Republicans.

Which ones are the bastards I can throw out by voting?

[BigV]

the incumbent


then vote your conscience on the non partisan issues.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

In 2008 it was the Democrats who made the legal challenge and threw the third parties off. This year it was the Republicans.

Which ones are the bastards I can throw out by voting?

Don't just think party-ticket...

Get rid of the extremists... there are moderates in both parties,
and there are candidates who see politics as one of the highest callings.

[Undertoad]

Well I will vote, so this is just devily advocacy like I enjoy. But... seriously, thanks for the thoughts on the matter you guys, it helps me consider everything.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Well I will vote, so this is just devily advocacy like I enjoy. But... seriously, thanks for the thoughts on the matter you guys, it helps me consider everything.

I am very glad to hear this news.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

There's still the old election cliche: "THROW THE BASTARDS OUT"

The flaw being, when the challenger is worse than the incumbent.