vaccines - Page 2

LabRat · 03-07-2005, 10:05 AM

Brett's Honey, my heart goes out to you for losing your daughter, and am happy to hear that you got more time with her than you might have. When we took our daughter for her shots (I don't see anything wrong with them) the chicken pox was optional. I opted out of it. I had them as a kid, VERY mild case, and my hubby has never had them despite being put in bed with a brother who did, to try to get him to get them. I usually get the flu shot because (until this years 'shortage') they were free thru work, and I figure it can't hurt. Didn't get one this year, yet didn't get influenza despite nursing my 2 yr old thru a very nasty case. I should have been sick as many times as I was coughed on

OnyxCougar · 03-07-2005, 10:46 AM

I only got them what the school system required. Let the immune system do the job it was made to do.

Also, use of those "hand sanitizers" and overuse of antibiotics is hurting us more than helping us. My Husband refuses to take antibiotics, and will gladly suffer through weeks of fever and sickness rather than give in and take the damn pills.

He gets sick way less often than I do, so I'm really starting to wonder if there's something to it.

Side note: He lost his first daughter at 3 days old because she had a strep infection when she was born. This may be why he is like this now.

Beestie · 03-07-2005, 10:53 AM

I thought overuse of antibiotics promoted the development of new strains of bacteria. So if I don't use them properly and a new strain of TB is created as a result, your husband's past refusal to take antibiotics will have been for naught as he is no "stronger" against the new strain than I am.

The problem is a collective one. And even if they are used properly there is still no guarantee that a new strain won't develop that is resistant to the antibiotic used to treat it.

Mutations and adaptation will always supply the world with new drug-resistant strains of bacteria.

OnyxCougar · 03-07-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

I thought overuse of antibiotics promoted the development of new strains of bacteria. So if I don't use them properly and a new strain of TB is created as a result, your husband's past refusal to take antibiotics will have been for naught as he is no "stronger" against the new strain than I am.

It's not for naught. Once he has endured his infection of a given strain, his body now has the ability to fight it off. That's not true if he took the antibiotics.

Quote:

The problem is a collective one. And even if they are used properly there is still no guarantee that a new strain won't develop that is resistant to the antibiotic used to treat it.

Mutations and adaptation will always supply the world with new drug-resistant strains of bacteria.

Agreed.

Beestie · 03-07-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

It's not for naught. Once he has endured his infection of a given strain, his body now has the ability to fight it off. That's not true if he took the antibiotics.

I believe that it is true in either event. Once his body finds the T-Cell, he's immune from that point forward regardless of whether he took an antibiotic or not. Since most antibiotics are ten day doses, not including the incubation period, his body probably had more than 2 weeks to find the T-Cell and, therefore, develop an immunity.

I think the "strength training for immune systems" theory has merit for kids, I'm not sure how valid it is for full-grown adults.

But, I readily admit that I'm no expert and will defer to those with more expertise.

Happy Monkey · 03-07-2005, 10:56 AM

That's the most important reason not to overuse antibiotics, but on a personal level, your immune system does strengthen with use.

Undertoad · 03-07-2005, 11:54 AM

Why not just occasionally lick a handrail?

mrnoodle · 03-07-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Why not just occasionally lick a handrail?

I'm about to eat lunch, dude

I'm medically unenlightened, but it seems to me that not taking antibiotics could possibly help when the mutated bugs came along. Your system, having developed antibodies to the old strain, has a more advantageous "starting point" in the fight against the new strain..right? Or is there no correlation?

glatt · 03-07-2005, 03:11 PM

I believe that people who live in modern clean environments with access to antibiotics and antimicrobal soap, etc. have generally weaker immune systems than people who live primitively. However, people who live primitively get sick and die more frequently. So there you go. Take your pick.

jinx · 03-07-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Take your pick.

You don't have to take your pick really, you can use resources and common sense. Washing your hands with soap and (clean) water after you use the bathroom and before you prepare food is good - antibacterial soap is bad, as is skipping the washing altogether. Not letting your child lick the floor at McDonalds is a good idea, injecting them with GE virii, antifreeze and monkey blood to make them healthy... not so much.

dar512 · 03-07-2005, 05:34 PM

Don't know if this is still a popular theory. But a few years ago there was research into whether one or more of the childhood vaccines had anything to do with the rise in autoimmune diseases.

There's a whole raft of these things, Crohn's disease (which I have), MS, Lupus, and Type 1A diabetes are all autoimmune diseases and they have all risen dramatically since the 1950s - about when they started automatically giving infants immunizations.

wolf · 03-07-2005, 12:59 PM

I just hang out with mental patients with poor personal hygiene.

I haven't taken a sick day (for cold symptoms) in years.

staceyv · 06-18-2005, 06:57 PM

vaccines can be legally avoided

The medical establishment and the government would have you believe that the benefits of vaccinations far outweigh the risks. The following links have information that will surprise and probably scare you. Their intent is to alert you to the dark side of vaccinations so that you can make an informed choice.

I think vaccines reak havoc on the immune system.
It's not just a problem with people, either.

At the vet I worked for 6 years ago, the vaccine companies were sending information to the veterinarians about how vaccinating every year isn't necessary and was causing tumors, cancer and immune system dysfunction, etc. The vets basically tossed it in the trash and kept urging people to bring their pets in for their yearly vaccines.

I could go on and on about this, but this post would get too long for anyone to read. Let's just say think for yourself- question authority, and yes, it's all about money.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-18-2005, 09:56 PM

Don't dismiss the millions and millions of people that have died from diseases we don't consider a problem anymore. Even today, people are dying in droves from things like the flu, in some parts of the world.

I can remember very well the terror of Polio every summer. Had friends felled by it.

jinx · 06-19-2005, 11:56 AM

Right. But don't dismiss improvements in medicine, sanitation, hygiene, and nutrition. Or the effects, known and unknown, of vaccine ingredients on the body. First, do no harm.

Disease is a symptom. You can treat the symptom, but another disease will take its place.

"The pathogen is nothing. The terrain is everything."
Louis Pasteur

03-07-2005, 10:05 AM	#1
LabRat twatfaced two legged bumhole Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,143	Brett's Honey, my heart goes out to you for losing your daughter, and am happy to hear that you got more time with her than you might have. When we took our daughter for her shots (I don't see anything wrong with them) the chicken pox was optional. I opted out of it. I had them as a kid, VERY mild case, and my hubby has never had them despite being put in bed with a brother who did, to try to get him to get them. I usually get the flu shot because (until this years 'shortage') they were free thru work, and I figure it can't hurt. Didn't get one this year, yet didn't get influenza despite nursing my 2 yr old thru a very nasty case. I should have been sick as many times as I was coughed on __________________ Strength does not come from how much weight you can lift, or how many miles you can run. It comes from knowing that you set a goal, and rose to the challenge. Strength comes from within.

03-07-2005, 10:46 AM	#2
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	I only got them what the school system required. Let the immune system do the job it was made to do. Also, use of those "hand sanitizers" and overuse of antibiotics is hurting us more than helping us. My Husband refuses to take antibiotics, and will gladly suffer through weeks of fever and sickness rather than give in and take the damn pills. He gets sick way less often than I do, so I'm really starting to wonder if there's something to it. Side note: He lost his first daughter at 3 days old because she had a strep infection when she was born. This may be why he is like this now. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

03-07-2005, 10:53 AM	#3
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I thought overuse of antibiotics promoted the development of new strains of bacteria. So if I don't use them properly and a new strain of TB is created as a result, your husband's past refusal to take antibiotics will have been for naught as he is no "stronger" against the new strain than I am. The problem is a collective one. And even if they are used properly there is still no guarantee that a new strain won't develop that is resistant to the antibiotic used to treat it. Mutations and adaptation will always supply the world with new drug-resistant strains of bacteria. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

03-07-2005, 10:56 AM	#6
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	That's the most important reason not to overuse antibiotics, but on a personal level, your immune system does strengthen with use. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-07-2005, 05:34 PM	#11
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	Don't know if this is still a popular theory. But a few years ago there was research into whether one or more of the childhood vaccines had anything to do with the rise in autoimmune diseases. There's a whole raft of these things, Crohn's disease (which I have), MS, Lupus, and Type 1A diabetes are all autoimmune diseases and they have all risen dramatically since the 1950s - about when they started automatically giving infants immunizations. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

03-07-2005, 11:54 AM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Why not just occasionally lick a handrail?

03-07-2005, 03:11 PM	#9
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I believe that people who live in modern clean environments with access to antibiotics and antimicrobal soap, etc. have generally weaker immune systems than people who live primitively. However, people who live primitively get sick and die more frequently. So there you go. Take your pick.

03-07-2005, 12:59 PM	#12
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I just hang out with mental patients with poor personal hygiene. I haven't taken a sick day (for cold symptoms) in years. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

06-18-2005, 06:57 PM	#13
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	vaccines can be legally avoided The medical establishment and the government would have you believe that the benefits of vaccinations far outweigh the risks. The following links have information that will surprise and probably scare you. Their intent is to alert you to the dark side of vaccinations so that you can make an informed choice. I think vaccines reak havoc on the immune system. It's not just a problem with people, either. At the vet I worked for 6 years ago, the vaccine companies were sending information to the veterinarians about how vaccinating every year isn't necessary and was causing tumors, cancer and immune system dysfunction, etc. The vets basically tossed it in the trash and kept urging people to bring their pets in for their yearly vaccines. I could go on and on about this, but this post would get too long for anyone to read. Let's just say think for yourself- question authority, and yes, it's all about money.

06-18-2005, 09:56 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Don't dismiss the millions and millions of people that have died from diseases we don't consider a problem anymore. Even today, people are dying in droves from things like the flu, in some parts of the world. I can remember very well the terror of Polio every summer. Had friends felled by it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-19-2005, 11:56 AM	#15
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Right. But don't dismiss improvements in medicine, sanitation, hygiene, and nutrition. Or the effects, known and unknown, of vaccine ingredients on the body. First, do no harm. Disease is a symptom. You can treat the symptom, but another disease will take its place. "The pathogen is nothing. The terrain is everything." Louis Pasteur __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

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