tell me what you think about this - Page 2

staceyv · 12-03-2003, 01:12 PM

just for the record, i never expected her to "drop everything she was doing and plan a wedding party for me" soooooo harsh. i think it's really really easy to write on the dry erase board "stacey is having a wedding reception tonight (monday!) at 7:00 45 ihateyou st, happyville." that is not dropping everything, nor is it planning a wedding party and she happily agreed to this! so, anyway, back to the baby, I don't think it matters at all whether i like her or not, i am just telling the facts. she drinks and smokes weed while pregnant and i think it's wrong, regardless of how i feel about her.

FileNotFound · 12-03-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
So this woman having a rum and coke at a party in her 7th month means her baby will have FAS?

If I post the risks of long-term caffeine overdose does it mean you can't have a Mountain Dew?

If you read the article you'd know that it's NOT known how much alcohol is needed to cause FAS.

The answer is : MAYBE

The level of risk is UNKNOWN. As in one shot could give FAS or maybe 20 shots. Or maybe you could almost OD on alchol and still not get FAS. It's not known.

But is that unknown risk worth the possible effects of FAS which I posted for those who are too damn lazy to follow links?

juju · 12-03-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jinx
Will anyone say anything to her when she is induced with cytotek or pitocin, then pumped full of narcotics to give birth? I doubt it.

I remember the anesthesiologist who took care of my wife telling me that the epidural wouldn't enter the baby's system. Don't know if that's true of not, but I think I remember him saying that.

Do cytote or pitocin enter the baby's blood system, or do they just increase the risk of something going wrong with the delivery?

jinx · 12-03-2003, 01:16 PM

... smokes weed while pregnant...

warch · 12-03-2003, 01:40 PM

If you meet a FAS kid/adult, and I am sure you all have, its really hard to not get disgusted by the stupid preventable risk this woman is forcing on a kid. Come up to the reservations in northern MN and WI. It pushes my big button so I would probably say something whether I know the person or not. Register my concern.

I have worked serving drinks and I have refused to serve a woman who was obviously pregnant. She didnt flip out, she just kinda shrugged and left, probably to get a drink elsewhere. I didnt get any grief from the management.

This is one reason I am pro choice, so if you do not wish to parent, you may choose not to. Perhaps she's going to give the kid up for adoption, and doesnt give a shit. Perhaps she is just really stupid, immature and selfish. If her choice is to parent, then the key thing is her responsibility for the health and well being of her offspring.\

I wouldn't drink while pregnant, but I do drive too fast with the kids in the car - so who the fuck am I, kwim?

So far, its sounds like you're lucky. I wouldnt take anything for granted. Odds are you'll find somekind of accident. And I hope its a harmless one. You can control some of the factors that raise the risk of injury: speed, belts, carseats, alertness so to me it makes sense to at least attempt that.

Riddil · 12-03-2003, 01:41 PM

Eh, it's really not *that* big a deal.

If you take a woman and she smokes 3 packs of cigs a day for 9 months, her child has a very high risk of being born with some birth defect. (note, it's still a risk. That woman may still have a healthy child)

However... obviously it *is* putting the child at risk, so as a society we've deemed that you should stop smoking (and drinking, and ____) to reduce that risk.

But! If that woman smoked only 1 cig a day... the odds of it hurting that child are tee-tiny. Buuut, then you get onto that slippery-slope... well if 1 is ok, what about 2? What about 3? etc, so it's best to stop cold.

Anyhow, it's for that reason why if I'm out and I see some pregger lady having a drink, I won't say anything to her. Maybe that's the *one* drink she's had her whole pregnancy. And one drink has less a chance for causing a birth defect than sitting too close to your TV.

Buuut, if she has an abusive habit with tobacco or alcohol... yeah, then that women obviously has no sense and is endagering the life and well-being of her unborn child

warch · 12-03-2003, 01:51 PM

There is also the money. Your money.
Here are some stats to believe or not. If not, stop by you local public school.

The cost to American taxpayers for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is estimated to be $5 million a day. $1.9 billion/year:
National Institute on Drugs and Alcohol

On average, each FASD individual costs the taxpayer more than $4 million in his or her lifetime (health problems, special education, psychotherapy and counseling, welfare, crime, and the justice system).

More than 60% of prisoners are likely affected by alcohol in utero. It costs approximately $120,000/year to "house" a Young Offender and $82,000 for an
adult offender. Punishment does not cure neurological damage.

Add on:
the FASD individual's own lifetime loss of income;
the high costs to the families (foster, adoptive or biological) who raise and care for FASD children and adults;

the lost income of a parent who must care for the exceptionally high needs of an FASD child;the costs to families whose FASD child is permanently dependent upon them;the costs of legal services for defending their child in the courts;the cost of stress caused divorce, etc.

Undertoad · 12-03-2003, 02:17 PM

One drink can't possibly cause FAS. One binge maybe.

From the link "Studies suggest that drinking a large amount of alcohol at any one time may be more dangerous to the fetus than drinking small amounts more frequently."

juju · 12-03-2003, 02:24 PM

Come on. If you see someone who's pregnant and drinking alcohol, what are the chances that that's her ONE drink for the entire 9 months? Pretty low, I'd say.

FileNotFound · 12-03-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
One drink can't possibly cause FAS. One binge maybe.

From the link "Studies suggest that drinking a large amount of alcohol at any one time may be more dangerous to the fetus than drinking small amounts more frequently."

Why not quote the sentance one after that?

"A safe amount of drinking during pregnancy has not been determined, and all major authorities agree that women should not drink at all during pregnancy."

Griff · 12-03-2003, 03:01 PM

This is a hot button issue for me because it's a human liberty/responsibility issue. The child with FAS has essentially been sold into slavery by his Mom. He will live a life of limited choice and his chances of suffering abuse at the hands of others will be greatly increased. Like warch said, take a good look around your local public school sometime and then think good and hard about your last drink. This from someone who really likes his booze.

Undertoad · 12-03-2003, 03:02 PM

I'm very skeptical.

The "major authorities" is the key here. This is referencing organizations such as the AMA. They are not giving you the scientific facts; they are making recommendations for an entire society. They know that 10% of drinkers become addicts and so they recommend no drinking at all.

It has been proven, many times over, that moderate drinking is a healthier lifestyle than not drinking at all. Moderate drinkers live on average 2-3 years longer than non-drinkers.

So why is it that we assume that alcohol is harmful? Not because of science, but because the science is being ignored in a haze of confusion and emotion.

lumberjim · 12-03-2003, 03:07 PM

i think i remember our dr saying that 1 glass of wine per day can actually help with blood pressure.......although, my memory for the spoken word is notorious.......jinx?

ladysycamore · 12-03-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound
So you have a case of a woman who knows that she is possibly harming her future child but does it anyway.

Hm...child abuse anyone?

ladysycamore · 12-03-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound

Why not quote the sentance one after that?

"A safe amount of drinking during pregnancy has not been determined, and all major authorities agree that women should not drink at all during pregnancy."

I'd have to agree with that. I mean, why take the chance? It seems that if one had to have that drink while pregnant, then they are putting the baby second as far as priorities are concerned. Do you HAVE to have that drink, cigarette, "bad" food, etc.? Can't that wait until AFTER the baby is born?

12-03-2003, 01:16 PM	#19
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	... smokes weed while pregnant... __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

12-03-2003, 01:51 PM	#22
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	There is also the money. Your money. Here are some stats to believe or not. If not, stop by you local public school. The cost to American taxpayers for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is estimated to be $5 million a day. $1.9 billion/year: National Institute on Drugs and Alcohol On average, each FASD individual costs the taxpayer more than $4 million in his or her lifetime (health problems, special education, psychotherapy and counseling, welfare, crime, and the justice system). More than 60% of prisoners are likely affected by alcohol in utero. It costs approximately $120,000/year to "house" a Young Offender and $82,000 for an adult offender. Punishment does not cure neurological damage. Add on: the FASD individual's own lifetime loss of income; the high costs to the families (foster, adoptive or biological) who raise and care for FASD children and adults; the lost income of a parent who must care for the exceptionally high needs of an FASD child;the costs to families whose FASD child is permanently dependent upon them;the costs of legal services for defending their child in the courts;the cost of stress caused divorce, etc. Last edited by warch; 12-03-2003 at 01:54 PM.

12-03-2003, 03:01 PM	#26
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	This is a hot button issue for me because it's a human liberty/responsibility issue. The child with FAS has essentially been sold into slavery by his Mom. He will live a life of limited choice and his chances of suffering abuse at the hands of others will be greatly increased. Like warch said, take a good look around your local public school sometime and then think good and hard about your last drink. This from someone who really likes his booze. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

12-03-2003, 03:07 PM	#28
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i think i remember our dr saying that 1 glass of wine per day can actually help with blood pressure.......although, my memory for the spoken word is notorious.......jinx? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-03-2003, 01:12 PM	#16
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	just for the record, i never expected her to "drop everything she was doing and plan a wedding party for me" soooooo harsh. i think it's really really easy to write on the dry erase board "stacey is having a wedding reception tonight (monday!) at 7:00 45 ihateyou st, happyville." that is not dropping everything, nor is it planning a wedding party and she happily agreed to this! so, anyway, back to the baby, I don't think it matters at all whether i like her or not, i am just telling the facts. she drinks and smokes weed while pregnant and i think it's wrong, regardless of how i feel about her.

12-03-2003, 01:40 PM	#20
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	If you meet a FAS kid/adult, and I am sure you all have, its really hard to not get disgusted by the stupid preventable risk this woman is forcing on a kid. Come up to the reservations in northern MN and WI. It pushes my big button so I would probably say something whether I know the person or not. Register my concern. I have worked serving drinks and I have refused to serve a woman who was obviously pregnant. She didnt flip out, she just kinda shrugged and left, probably to get a drink elsewhere. I didnt get any grief from the management. This is one reason I am pro choice, so if you do not wish to parent, you may choose not to. Perhaps she's going to give the kid up for adoption, and doesnt give a shit. Perhaps she is just really stupid, immature and selfish. If her choice is to parent, then the key thing is her responsibility for the health and well being of her offspring.\ I wouldn't drink while pregnant, but I do drive too fast with the kids in the car - so who the fuck am I, kwim? So far, its sounds like you're lucky. I wouldnt take anything for granted. Odds are you'll find somekind of accident. And I hope its a harmless one. You can control some of the factors that raise the risk of injury: speed, belts, carseats, alertness so to me it makes sense to at least attempt that.

12-03-2003, 01:41 PM	#21
Riddil Management Consultant Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 165	Eh, it's really not that big a deal. If you take a woman and she smokes 3 packs of cigs a day for 9 months, her child has a very high risk of being born with some birth defect. (note, it's still a risk. That woman may still have a healthy child) However... obviously it is putting the child at risk, so as a society we've deemed that you should stop smoking (and drinking, and ____) to reduce that risk. But! If that woman smoked only 1 cig a day... the odds of it hurting that child are tee-tiny. Buuut, then you get onto that slippery-slope... well if 1 is ok, what about 2? What about 3? etc, so it's best to stop cold. Anyhow, it's for that reason why if I'm out and I see some pregger lady having a drink, I won't say anything to her. Maybe that's the one drink she's had her whole pregnancy. And one drink has less a chance for causing a birth defect than sitting too close to your TV. Buuut, if she has an abusive habit with tobacco or alcohol... yeah, then that women obviously has no sense and is endagering the life and well-being of her unborn child

12-03-2003, 02:17 PM	#23
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	One drink can't possibly cause FAS. One binge maybe. From the link "Studies suggest that drinking a large amount of alcohol at any one time may be more dangerous to the fetus than drinking small amounts more frequently."

12-03-2003, 02:24 PM	#24
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Come on. If you see someone who's pregnant and drinking alcohol, what are the chances that that's her ONE drink for the entire 9 months? Pretty low, I'd say.

12-03-2003, 03:02 PM	#27
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I'm very skeptical. The "major authorities" is the key here. This is referencing organizations such as the AMA. They are not giving you the scientific facts; they are making recommendations for an entire society. They know that 10% of drinkers become addicts and so they recommend no drinking at all. It has been proven, many times over, that moderate drinking is a healthier lifestyle than not drinking at all. Moderate drinkers live on average 2-3 years longer than non-drinkers. So why is it that we assume that alcohol is harmful? Not because of science, but because the science is being ignored in a haze of confusion and emotion.

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