Effectiveness of prison

[godwulf]

What was truly amusing was watching her on discharge, crying to her mother, insisting that she was now having trouble walking because of the house-arrest bracelet.

Many years ago, I was in the security office of a store where a shoplifting suspect was being held - it was this scraggly-looking little guy of about 30, who'd been caught trying to walk out of the store with several Polaroid film packs stuck in his pants; he was sitting in a chair with his hands cuffed behind him, and as soon as the police arrived, he started whining: "Officer, these handcuffs really hurt my wrists...they really hurt my wrists." The Phoenix PD officer stopped by the chair, looked down his nose at the guy, and just said, "They're supposed to." And walked on.

[zippyt]

I some time work on coin counters in casinos , once as i was waiting to get escorted into hard count ( where ALL the coins are ) at a casino the security officers brought this drunk scraggley looking mexican dude to their holding pen , he was cussing spitting and kicking yelling that what they were doing to him was wrong . I asked one of the officers what was the deal . Drunk mexican dude had snagged a ladys tub-o-coins and took off running , security had given chase , drunk dude hit a collom he and the coins went flying every where , security collected him and the coins , gave the coins back to the lady , she desided NOT to press charges . Security escorted drunk dude off the property and was told never come back , drunk dude steped Back accross the property line saying " what are you going to do about it Mother F%$#@!ers ????"
They put him back across the line 3-4 times , then cuffed him and stuffed him in a car , and take him to their holding pen.
They called the local cops . This is in Mississippi , small town that suddenly has 8-10 BIG ass casinos in the county . Local cop comes in smileing , Security tells him whats up , his expression changes to NOT a smile . Local cop trades the hand cuffs that casino security use ( the kind that swivel at the wrists ) to his cuffs ( these don't swivel ) . Drunk dude starts bitching , local cop grabes his face and says " SHUT UP !!!! yOU AIN'T DEALING WITH SECURITY ANY MORE !!!!!" Local cop puts drunk dudes hands above his head ( his hands were behind his back ) , and walks him out to his car . I don't know just what happened out at the car but a casino security officer came running back in VERRY white faced saying " turn the camers OFF !!!!"
Most folks don't know that all the casinos in that area are ALL on corp of engeneers land ( federal land leased to the casinos ) and ANY offence can and most probley WILL be a federal offence ...

[jaguar]

Don't join the bleeding military then. Get what you ask for.
Switzerland has a real issue at the moment where in the last few years there has been an influx of immigrants from africa who run make up the majority of dealers in the country. For these guys prisons here are *luxury* compared to just living back home so there is no deterrent whatsoever.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by lumberjim
If they kept the bad guys in holes in the ground, and paid someone to piss on their heads each morning, maybe, just maybe there'd be less inmates to deal with.

Perhaps...or maybe, just maybe, we have a combination of ridiculous laws on the books and a system that is more focused on punishment than rehabilitation.

It is up to the individual incarcaree to rehabilitate himself.

[dar512/dave]There is no such word as "incarcaree."[/dar512/dave]

And I agree with you to a point. For some, a shove in the right direction would do wonders. They just don't quite get it by themselves, but when you give them a bit of guidance, they figure it out. In addition, you can follow the right path, but your fate is still in the hands of others...for example, child molestors who have done their time, but are held beyond the end of their sentence. Not to mention, when you're in prison, you lose some of your individuality. A higher power is pulling your strings to a degree.

The convict has already shot himself in the foot...but how helpful is it for the system to shoot them in the other foot?

[lumberjim]

If they kept the bad guys in holes in the ground, and paid someone to piss on their heads each morning, maybe, just maybe there'd be less inmates to deal with.

Originally posted by sycamore

Perhaps...or maybe, just maybe, we have a combination of ridiculous laws on the books and a system that is more focused on punishment than rehabilitation.

clarification:
by bad guy, i mean really bad...like murderes and rapists, and such....i wouldn't condone pissing on martha stewart.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by lumberjim
....i wouldn't condone pissing on martha stewart.

Hey, I thought you said that sort of thing turned her on. That whole relationship-with-Martha thing wasn't all a lie, was it?

*cough*

Ew.

[elSicomoro]

Ohhhhh...so THAT'S what Jimbo meant when he said "golden arches."

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by hot_pastrami

Hey, I thought you said that sort of thing turned her on. That whole relationship-with-Martha thing wasn't all a lie, was it?

*cough*

Ew.

shuduuuuuup! inxjay is isteninglay!

[godwulf]

There was a very funny SNL bit a number of years ago - well, it featured Dan Aykroyd, so you can imagine - that was supposed to be a commercial for one of those places where you send 'troubled teens' for counselling. Aykroyd played a staff member, who was walking along a path with one of the kids, and he was saying things (while offering the kid a smoke) like, "Hey, just smile and take your folks' crap, do what you want to when you're sure you can get away with it, shine them on till you're out of the house, and then you can party at college...", etc. In other words, advising the kid to avoid trouble by just lying low and telling people in authority what they want to hear.

It's funny because I suspect that a large number - perhaps even a majority - of law-abiding citizens get through life by doing exactly that. We all have things that we'd LIKE to do - or at least things that we can imagine ourselves doing and would probably enjoy very much - that, if we actually woke up one day and did them, would get us fired, or divorced, or sent to jail or prison; we don't do them because we have learned to prioritize our desires and needs, and to control ourselves to some extent.

We've all known kids of various ages who for whatever reason simply didn't 'get it' when it came to keeping things in perspective, prioritizing intelligently, and staying out of trouble. Most kids eventually do learn those very important life skills, but of course many don't - they remain dysfunctional and self-destructive into adulthood, and the jails and prisons of the world are filled with them. I'm sure that they range, intellectually, from some of the dumbest people to some of the smartest, but even the highly intelligent ones are damaged in that they seem to be incapable, when out in society, to sublimate their personal desires to society's need for them to 'be good' and live by the rules.

I'm no expert, but I have to believe that most career criminals are done exactly zero good by 'rehabilitation' of any kind - they've just never developed the coping skills necessary to be (what they would probably call) 'citizens' (non-criminals), and beyond a certain age they're just never going to.

[richlevy]

The sad fact is that I would pay $20-30K a year to have a guy who stomps on peoples heads when he gets drunk locked up. Unfortunately, there may not be enough beds because they have also locked up another guy who was caught with 2 ounces or marijuana or 'possesion of drug paraphanalia'.

Maybe I'm becoming more libertarian in my old age, but my belief is that society should getsto regulate some of what goes on in the streets and almost none of what happens behind closed doors.

I don't want to start Prohibition again because of violent drunks and I don't want to continue Marijuana prohibition because of stoned assholes.

DUI is DUI whether on 'drugs' or alcohol. 'Public drunkeness', if you really want to enforce it, should be the same.

Hold people to the same standard of behavior in public. drunk as sober and make them responsible for the consequences of their right to drink/do drugs.

Someone who stomps on people for kicks, drunk or sober, isn't someone I want walking around. If he can be rehablitated, fine, but do it from behind bars.

BTW, white collar criminals need to go to jail. In terms of social harm, the board of Enron did more damage than a horde of drug dealers at a church picnic.

As for prison rape, I think that allowing that kind of behavior is bad for society. A lot of people joke about it, and I begin to wonder if authorities and guards don't begin to feel as it is some form of accidental justice. I believe that by imagining and possibly supporting the concept of prison abuse, we as a society are feeding revenge fantasies which are poisoning us.

The word penitentiary comes from penitance. While the Puritans among our founding fathers may have been accidentally cruel, favoring long periods of solitary confinement for prisoners to reflect, I think they did understand that the decency of a society can be measured by its prisons.

I found this link of History of Prisons .

Interesting that there is a mention that the charter of William Penn provides for damages for those wrongully imprisoned. Hearing about some of these men released from death row on DNA evidence, I wonder if any of them received compensation?

[wolf]

Originally posted by godwulf
"Officer, these handcuffs really hurt my wrists...they really hurt my wrists." The Phoenix PD officer stopped by the chair, looked down his nose at the guy, and just said, "They're supposed to." And walked on.

The other popular response to this one is "if you would stop struggling against them, they won't hurt at all."

[Beestie]

I don't think prison has anything to do with punishment, rehab, or anything else. I think it has to do with giving society the feeling that justice has taken place. Those interpretations are from the perspective of the incarcerated which, in answering this question, is, imho, not correct.

That explains the outrage over prison amenities like cable TV and Playboy subscriptions as well as the deafening silence w/r to the sexual and physical abuse that occurs there.

Prison is resitution to society. Nothing more, nothing less, imho.

[russotto]

Do you get regular anal rape in the military?

[Happy Monkey]

Nobody asks, nobody tells.

[phillybilly]

The decided to do lab testing on convicts than on animals.....

NOW before anyone gets their panties in a bunch...I mean HARDCORE criminals...forgers, pickpockets, bruglars...etc....I don't mean them......How about multiple rapists/murderers (hey the green river killer....Why should the people of Wash. state have to pay to keep this lunatic locked up...)

Does them with some aids or cancer and give them experimental drugs to see how they would effect the human body! Hey it's the LEAST they can do to re-pay society!!

I think the whole escape from NY...escape from LA thing is looking more and more attractive!!!

Later!