Lighting the bulb of brilliance

[Clodfobble]

I can very much relate to the "lightbulb" feeling. It's like you don't like them OR dislike them, they're just your family, and you never think about it until long after you've been capable of adequately judging whether you like a person or not.

I had a similar revelation about my grandmother: thought she was just this sweet, nice but boring old woman. One day my mother was telling me about some conversation they'd had, and quoted a VERY nasty comment my grandmother had made to her. When I expressed shock, she was surprised, said grandma had always been that way, how did I ever miss it? She told me more, some things I'd even been present for--and indeed, I couldn't believe I'd never realized it.

But on the other hand (and side of the family), when I was about 15 I learned that I had 4 cousins that I didn't even know about, and because we were pretty much all that was left of (that side of) the family my dad decided we needed to band together, so we all flew in from our respective states and met. It was an amazing week, and though we're still really far apart and have only physically reunited all together once since then, we've kept constant contact over the internet. All of us have since admitted that we never expected how compatible we'd all be, and it was just one of the most uplifting and cool get-togethers we've ever been a part of.

So yeah, having a lightbulb go off about a family member can be pretty damn disturbing. But every family's got 'em, and maybe when you least expect it you'll discover a relative you never knew about who'll turn out to be your new closest friend. Don't let a few assholes make you write off the whole category of "family."

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'm with Beastie, stay out of their lives and do your best to keep them out of yours.

[limey]

Originally posted by Beestie
Good luck and, if nothing else, just take some satisfaction that your relationship and present/future family is not as afflicted. Given the environment I grew up in I decided long ago that if I accomplished nothing else with my life, I would at least break the chain of violence in my family tree. I take much personal pride in having done that.

Tending your own garden well is the ultimate response.

Beestie! Good for you!

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by Elspode
FWIW, *everyone's* family is composed of some proportion of jerks, assholes, evil bitches, drunks, loonies and just plain folk.

For me, it's just the "plain folk". No drama in my family, but I don't like the fact that some members think that talking about problems is like "voluteering information" (which to certain degrees, it is, but when you need to know information, like the family history of illnesses, or something serious, somebody better start talkin'!). They tend to be vague about stuff...almost like they are keeping a secret or something, which drives me batty sometimes!

And living far away helps. In my family, once you leave the general vicinity, you're almost forgotten about. Not good, but not all together bad either.

[Brigliadore]

Originally posted by ladysycamore
In my family, once you leave the general vicinity, you're almost forgotten about. Not good, but not all together bad either.

No shit, thats how it was for me as well. I was living in a different state when my older sister got pregnant with her first child. About 3 months into the pregnancy my step mom told me about Autumn being pregnant. Nearly 8 months go by and I realize she must have had that kid by now so in a phone conversation I ask my step mom "Did Autumn have her baby? What sex was it?". Her response "Didn't anyone tell you? She had a girl, about 3 months ago". Nice, thanks for letting me know. I wasn't around and so it wasn't worth telling me about. Happened all the time. Even now with living close to them I am often the last person to hear about things, I guess the old habits still die hard.

[Griff]

What exactly does one do about a wife-beater? If the wife isn't ready to leave... must be some resource out there for strategy.

[lumberjim]

this is a touchy subject.

in some cases, the wife is just as responsible for her beatings as the husband is
[ducks]
they egg him on until he loses control and hits her.....the wife wins, but she takes a beating.

not much you CAN do from outside. unless you are willing to keep the guy in a body cast until she wises up and leaves forever.

kids, as with most marital problems, complicate things a thousandfold.

what's that situation in this case, blue...if you don;t mind sharing, that is.

[wolf]

LJ, you neanderthal ...

Most of the time the wife doesn't "ask for it," or consider her single opportunity to mouth off before she loses teeth and has her nose broken again any kind of a victory.

(your comment is of the couch-sleeping variety, you know. Jinx, what you do with him is up to you.)

People who either haven't had it happen to them, or worked with women (and men) who have been subjected to domestic violence often don't appreciate the complexity of the whole situation.

A lot does rely on the abused wanting to do something to change that. If they do there are a lot of resources for abused women, very few for abused men.

Calling the police is a start.

Calling a counsellor can help further.

Sometimes the counselling has to be first, because leaving an abusive situation is sometimes not as straightforward a decision as you would think it should be.

[lumberjim]

i did say SOME times, wolf.

take pam anderson and tommy lee. she admitted to it on howard stern....so there.....go sleep on your own couch!
:p

[Beestie]

Originally posted by lumberjim

...take pam anderson and tommy lee....blah, blah, blah....on howard stern...

Ahem, may I (re)direct your attention to the title of this thread.

[lumberjim]

ok, so blue58 will have ANOTHER thread hijacked beyond all hope.

Are you saying that this provocation phenomenon does not happen? I say that it does. it may not be the NORM, but i bet it happens more than you or I know.

[Beestie]

ok, so blue58 will have ANOTHER thread hijacked beyond all hope.

Nooooo. I was poking fun at your example. Pam Anderson and Tommy Lee being more towards the Beevis and Butthead bulb wattage than the brilliance blue58 was talking about!

But, getting back to the point, its very uncomfortable territory when discussing how the victim of violence is somehow partly responsible for it even if there is merit to establishing a degree of provocation.

Many people who really do deserve to be handled violently aren't so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to dole out this implicit and selective partial "justice" that you are suggesting exists.

I end up using the perfect stranger analysis. If "you" wouldn't have shattered the eye socket of a perfect stranger who did what your wife did when you hit her then your wife probably didn't deserve it either. "You" is obviously a pronoun of convenience here.

[Clodfobble]

Blue58, assuming that she doesn't want to leave him, which is very often the case, there's a program in my city that gets these women free cellphones, so they can call 911 if he ever gets "really" out of hand or she's afraid for her life. Putting it in their hands to determine when he's "crossed the line" is a big mental step forward for them, and helps in the long run, without usually inciting further beating because it's just a cellphone.

You could try getting her one, and telling her it's for that express purpose. It also puts you "on her side" in her eyes, not just another person telling her to leave him (which she's probably not ready to hear)--which may mean eventually if you do try telling her to leave him she might listen to you.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by lumberjim
this is a touchy subject.

in some cases, the wife is just as responsible for her beatings as the husband is
[ducks]
they egg him on until he loses control and hits her.....the wife wins, but she takes a beating.

I had to read this several times and take a few breaths before responding. It's just that domestic violence issues is a touchy subject with me, because I had to bring two good friends through abusive situations. Also, during grand jury duty in 1996, I had to hear a 911 tape of a woman getting the living daylights out of her with an aluminum bat by her husband (with their 5 year old son howling in the background). You never forget the sound of a blunt object hitting flesh and bone and hearing the victim literally crying for mercy, and a small helpless boy crying for daddy to stop. Based on this, my opinion is that nothing a woman can do justifies a man beating her to death. I guess I'd need to know what your definition of "egging him on" is, because I don't care if she's calling him the spawn of Satan, he needs to learn some self-control and anger management, if he feels the need to beat a woman down just because he doesn't like what she's saying.

not much you CAN do from outside. unless you are willing to keep the guy in a body cast until she wises up and leaves forever.

Well, again, based on personal experience, you *can* do small things that hopefully will add up to the woman having a light bulb moment, and leaving the jerk.

[lumberjim]

let me clarify.

I in no way condone hitting anyone in anger. Especially your dependants or your life partner. What I was saying was that in SOME cases, the woman ( or the man if it happens to be reversed) can purposefully instigate the abuser into losing control, because they enjoy some control for a short time afterward. This because of the guilt that the abuser feels toward what they have done.