2/7: Man vs tank

[tw]

Actually Adam, I was a greater friend of Israel than you are. A country's best friends are those who stick to the facts without emotional ties. It was why Israel once had great support in the US and UK press. Unlike you, I am not afraid to label a mass murder as a dic head because I don't care about anyone's religion (as long as he does not try to impose it on me). In almost a decade of Cellar posts, I NEVER used four letter words. That is how evil that beloved dic head, mother fucking Prime Minister is.

Your response? Don't acknowledge facts and maybe the facts will go away. If you do not call the dic head what he is, then you must support the man. If you were an honest human, then you would acknowledge that the Prime Minister of Israel is responsible for mass murders, insubordination, and advocating the murder of Rabin. You will not because you really like the dic head? If you did not like the dic head, then you would acknowledge Sharon is evil. You can't do that. You can't bring yourself to be honest.

No wonder you claim the death of a few Israelis is a major crisis. So few Jews have died that the pragmatic number is zero. Zero, Adam. You conveniently forget many Israeli deaths are non-Jews - murdered by rabid dogs from the Lukid mentality. Yes Adam. Many Israeli deaths are by right wing Jewish attack groups that execute without fear of prosecution. You would suggest those were Jews murdered by Palestinians.

Facts are that not enough Jews are dying to be significant whereas Jews routinely steal land and murder other religions - a fact you conveniently keep ignoring.

Your credibility is becoming pathetic because you don't have the balls to even call Israel's Prime Minister what he is - a mass murdering, insubordinate dic head. Standup for the country you love. Be an honest man. Call the dic head Prime Minister an enemy of all peoples. You can't. Your religion gets in the way of logical thought. Others should notice how religion can actually convert honest men into blood sucking racists. Adam cannot even admit the history of a dic head Prime Minister.

Lets get one thing straight, Adam. Israel once had no stronger ally than in me. But I do not remain attached to anything based on emotion or religion. Facts form my opinions. Israel has slowly changed from an honest nation to a country dominated by racism. If you think the US and UK press are against Israel, then you are simply thinking like a paranoid Richard Nixon.

[tw]

Spring City is tiring of bombs. Therefore they bulldozed the road once used by the 99 Bus. Rediculous? Of course. We don't punish whole cities because of one man's crime AND we don't elect mass murders to be our leaders.

However the NY Times Sunday 25 Feb 2001 - front page picture - hundreds walking the beach because Israel "bulldozed" the north south road. Why? Two bombs on that road. Screw everyone. Since all non-Jews are only dogs, then cut the road. Punish everyone because a Jew might have been hurt.

Is this a responsible democracy or a goverment of KKK racist types? That NY Times picture demonstrates what the Israel government has now become.

[adamzion]

With all the accusations that Israel is violating the human rights of the Palestinian soldiers who fire at from behind children, with orders from the PA leadership to the parents to send their children out to act as human shields, there hasn't been a peep here about the US and UK dropping literally tons of pounds of bombs and similar munitions on Iraq. These bombs, while ostensibly aimed "surgically" at Iraqi guns and radar installations, likely killed more Iraqui civilians in a day than rioting Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces since their latest intifada began.

Some would argue that these two issues are not morally equivalent, and I agree wholeheartedly. The mainland of the US is, in no way, threatened by Iraq, only cheap oil prices (which were the main reason for the Gulf War in the first place). Anything which happens in Israel is, by definition, happening on the Israeli mainland, and terrorist bombs have exploded in both the largest Israeli city and its capital. Compare that to car bombs and bus bombings in NYC and Washington, DC, and then ask yourself how the US would react? Likely by bombing another third world country like Sudan or Afghanistan, ostensibly to kill Osama bin Laden again.

Oh, but the US has an excuse- it's our media which defines things as good or bad.

Just an observation,
Z

[richlevy]

Originally posted by tw

Facts are that not enough Jews are dying to be significant whereas Jews routinely steal land and murder other religions - a fact you conveniently keep ignoring.

You certainly lost me there. First of all, the Israeli government does not represent all jews. Secondly, as for murdering members of other religions, in the Middle East this is an equal opportunity sport, with small groups of arabs, jews, and christians with blood on their hands.

[elSicomoro]

I think it's fairly obvious that the US "freed" Kuwait because of the beautiful object known as oil. How funny that it took us forever to go after Yugoslavia, but it only took 5 months to save Kuwait. Hmmm...Bosnia and Kosovo offer us...nothing. (No offense to them, but what does Kuwait offer?)

As many of you might know, Binyamin Netanyahu was in town a few weeks ago. And quite frankly, he worries me, as does Ariel Sharon. He mentioned how the original borders of Israel (in 1948) were too much of a security concern. So my question is, what exactly does having the Golan Heights, Gaza, and the West Bank really give Israel? After all, they still border Egypt, Jordan, etc. And because the West Bank was not exactly "theirs," just what right did Israel have building settlements there?

I don't deny that the Jews have been through hell and back, but does that truly justify the wars that have been fought over the course of 53 years of the State of Israel's existence? True, the Arabs tried to crush the Israelis, but failed. But during the various battles, intifadas, etc., it would seem that Israel is no better than the Arab nations they have fought for so long.

(On a side note, as much money as we give to Israel in aid, why have there been so many problems in extraditing people from Israel to the US to stand trial for crimes such as murder?)

[tw]

Originally posted by richlevy

You certainly lost me there. First of all, the Israeli government does not represent all jews. Secondly, as for murdering members of other religions, in the Middle East this is an equal opportunity sport, with small groups of arabs, jews, and christians with blood on their hands.

In the context of the post - it was not 'all jews'. It is Israeli Jews who are but a subgroup of Israeli citizens. Those who confuse issues so as to avoid mentioning Sharon and Jewish land stealing also would have you believe that the number of dead Israeli citizens is all Jewish. Many of those dead Israeli citizens were non-Jewish Israelis killed by extremist right wing Jewish murders protected by people such as the racist, Jewish Supremistist Ariel Sharon.

In Israel, most murders are executed by Jewish Israeli citizens. In Israel, if you kill a dog or a Palestinian, then it is only an accident report. Most blood inside Israel is on Jewish hands, yet no Jewish murders are prosecuted. Furthermore, most non-Jewish murders are never even considered for investigation. Therefore Israel dominates top categories in the recent Human Rights Abuse report. Therefore the recent BBC report so surprising: Israeli government will actually investigate the murder of 13 non-Jewish Israeli citizens? How many foreign aid dollars were withheld from Israeli to make that miracle happen?

History demonstrates that an equal peace settlement will only happen when Jewish Israeli deaths are anywhere near the death rates of non-Jewish residents. Presently, death rates among Jewish Israelis is almost zero - despite posted propaganda here. For peace to happen, far more Jewish Israelis must be murdered - to bring the general population back to logical sense. Presently, Israel is even more 'emotionally in denial' than Adam. This "god's chosen people" nonsense only proves that religion in government is the devil's handiwork.

Adam has demonstrated only some of this extremist, illogical mindset. He accepts dic head Sharon as a legitamate leader. He posted "We'll still be around when the US is a mere entry in a history book. We outlasted the Babylonians, we outlasted the Romans, and we outlasted the Nazis. They all tried to kill us, and they all failed. So will Arafat and company." He also posted this nonsense to avoid embarrassing facts and UN Resolution 242: "I give up, tw. Obviously, you would far prefer it if all us annoying kikes were to get up and jump in the ocean ...". Then he advocates this fundamental violation of basic human rights: "... Israeli soldiers have the right to fire back when attacked. And, yes, rocks and Molotov cocktails thrown at you *do* constitute attacks."

The above 'Richard Nixon' inferiority complex is major part of the problem. To avoid admitting that Israel's Prime Minster is a mass murder, instead, Adam labels that history as "straw man"! Notice not once does Adam ever suggest or discuss what would be an equitible peace settlement. He totally avoids even acknowledging UN Resolution 242 as if it were a venomous snake. UN Resolution 242 is a requirement for peace. Adam cannot even type "242" as if the expression would create cancer or crash his computer disk.

Any peace settlement with Palestinian 'dogs' is not mentioned or implied. Adam is not an extremist. Just imagine how worse these so-called America friends are. Israel is now dominated and governed by racists who make George Wallace and Lester Maddox look like saints - and that is acceptable even to a non-extremist Adam.

In this situation, the death rate of Isreali Jews has to greatly exceed the current, near zero death rate before peace can occur.

[adamzion]

Actually, Tom, <b>have</b> mentioned in the past that I was in favor of both the Oslo accords and the Wye River Accords which followed them. Unfortunately, due to stubbornness on both sides, and later due to a planned uprising which used Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount- Israeli territory, whether or not the US media wants to acknowledge it- as an excuse.

I have come to an unfortunate conclusion about the peace process, though. Namely, that it is impossible for negotiations to succeed when the negotiators do not even agree on what it is that is being negotiated for. Both sides say "peace," but it seems quite clear that they disagree on what, precisely, "peace" means.

For the Israelis, "peace" means something along the lines of "we don't like you, you don't like us, but let's stop killing each other for a change." Not a "warm peace," by any means- expecting an immediately warm peace with any Palestinian state would be foolish at this point- but even the coldest peace is better than active bloodshed.

For the PLO (and, let's not kid ourselves, that's with whom the Israelis are negotiating) peace means "Jews jump in the Mediterranean." Indeed, for most of the Arab world, that seems to be the definition of peace with Israel, since all of them save Jordan and Egypt are officially in a state of war with Israel.

Am I happy about this? Of course not! I had a vision a while back of a future when Jews and Arabs in the middle east- b'nai Yitzhak and b'nai Yishmael (sons of Issac and sons of Ishmael- the brothers who were the sons of the Patriarch Abraham)- work together, using mutually-beneficial trade, technologies, and resources to build the Middle East into an economic power to rival the European Union and the US. Unfortunately, this is not likely while no country in the region save Israel has a freely-elected government.

But, I point out that the history of co-operation between Jews and Arabs- indeed, co-operation between Jews and Muslims- is *far* better than the history of co-operation between Jews and Christians or Muslims and Christians. The basis for co-existance, and even alliance, is there. But before any of that can happen, Palestinian self-rule must be more democratic than dictatorial in nature. As Kant noted, democratic republics are not likely to wage war against one another, both because the citizens of each will recognize the legimacy of other democratic republics and because it's bad business to shoot your trading partners.

We can keep spinning around and around and around all we want- we're not likely to solve anything short of a "bomb the whole bloody place and pave it the hell over" solution. That, at least, would leave *everyone* equally infuriated. As I've seen written, "for every tough problem there is a simple, easy to understand, wrong solution." And that, my friends, is what people have been positing in regards to the Arab-Israeli conflict ever since it began.

Oy,
Z

[tw]

Originally posted by adamzion
Actually, Tom, <b>have</b> mentioned in the past that I was in favor of both the Oslo accords and the Wye River Accords which followed them. Unfortunately, due to stubbornness on both sides, and later due to a planned uprising which used Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount- Israeli territory, whether or not the US media wants to acknowledge it- as an excuse. ...

That is closer to the current Middle East situation. However the Barak opinion was "we don't like you, you don't like us, but let's stop killing each other for a change AND finalize the details later." Arafat's position was "we don't like you, you don't like us, but let's stop killing each other for a change AND finalize the details now because other administrations (Likud) constantly reneged."

Dic head Sharon said "all Palestinians are inferior scum shit so I will destroy peace by taking hundreds of racist pigs with me to violate sacred lands". Of course unbiased people know that shit licker Sharon is THE central reason for destruction of peace and THE reason for the revival of the intafada. Only lying extremists would say that mothers sent their children out to become martyrs. Only extremist fools would believe Sharon lies. Sharon has used propaganda tactics that would have made Hitler proud. He is central to destruction of all peace - no others come close to being such a cock chewing, mother fucker.


There are many other parties to this dispute. Your summary remains significantly in error because, as a Jew, you see your enemies as one. Instead view it as Kennedy did Krushchev during the Cuban Missile crisis. Arafat is desperatly holding together a Palestinian people who could easily turn to other extremist Arab groups. Those others do say "Jews jump in the Mediterranean." Unfortunately, Adam, your Israeli brethen are too extemist to see good Palestinians from bad. Indeed, these extremists Jews will continue to do everything to destroy peace including occupation of the West Bank knowing full well that they are stealing land from dogs - screw any and all peace settlement. Israel is also full of mass murder advocates like Sharon. Mostly, they are called Likud.

What should happen to Jerusalem? It should be handed to Buddists. All Arabs and Jews should be removed from Jerusalem and must pay Buddist monks to visit Jerusalem only during daylight hours. IOW both religions would then be treated as they currently deserve. Realistically, that cannot happen, but it is a fair settlement because any religion in this dispute is the silly reason for all deaths. The enemy of peace will always be religion and religious leaders. There are teaching from Kahlil Gibran
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...154385-2293431
that could settle this. But such ideas have never been acceptable to Orthodox and Palestinian extremists. Furthermore, too many Jews simply cannot see the difference between the PLO and extremist Palestinian - too much religion in their brains occupying space that should be used for intelligence.

Gibran's teachings are the antonym of what Sharon and Likud stand for. Gibran is what made religion good. Those who religiously worship a silly Bible and Koran are more often enemies of humanity.

IOW not enough people have died because all this hate and anger is directly traceable to religious leaders, their holy books, and a worship of false idols. Man vs Tank is a classic picture repeated throughout the world when religion is the basis for decision. Religion extremism; anyone who puts religion into government, politics, or social setting; is really the enemy of all human existance.

IOW, Adam, Arafat says almost what Barak was saying. However, even you, a non-extremist, still cannot separate anti-humantiy, Jewish extremist rhetoric from what almost could have happend at Wye, et al. You are not the only one, which is why another Hilter like leader is now called Prime Minister of Israel. That is the irony of Man vs Tank. The current Israeli Prime Minister thinks just like an early 1930 Hitler - because he represents extremist religous beliefs. So evil that children must now stand up against Tanks.

Until neanderthals are properly labeled dic heads by much more than one person, then peace is not possible. The requirements for peace exist. UN Resolution 242 IS fundamental to all Middle East peace. You should be acknowledging and advocating UN 242. You don't.

The West Bank must be swept clean of internationally illegal Israeli settlements. That would happen if Jewish Israeli death rates were anywhere as high as all non-Jewish death rates. But currently, a mother fucker has too much support even from a Labor party. Man vs Tank should be repeated with a Jewish child throwing rocks at an Arab tank. Only then would both sides suddenly discover they always had same definition for peace.

Again, Ted Koppel's Town Meeting in Israel demonstrated Likud's 'fuck everyone who is not Jewish' attitude that has only hardened. Place the Mayor of Jerusalem as an example of evil. He could pass as a Nazi party leader the way he tirades. Sharon, et al is THE reason that even Barak and Arafat could not finalizing details. They came so close only to have that cock sucker Sharon brillantly destroy the whole process.

Elected government: you conveniently forget the creation of a world's greatest leader - King Hussein of Jordan. Jordan also has a freely elected government. Maybe you forgot that because Jordan is a Arabic nation? You also forget Turkey. Then there is Iran, a country that almost elects their government except for another evil - religious leaders there also dominate thinking - just like Likud's mentality. Israel has no monopoly on free elections in the region. For that matter, Israel is accused of numerous election irregularities in non-Jewish Israel voting districts - irregularities that make FL insignificant. Your extremist bretheren will conveniently forget that also - as well as who tops the recent Human Rights Abuse lists.


[Edited by tw on 02-28-2001 at 07:01 PM]

[adamzion]

FYI, the <u>Daily Star</u> is known to be rather virulently anti-Israeli, so this article could hardly be said to suffer from pro-Israel bias.

The article is availble at http://www.dailystar.com.lb/03_03_01/art4.htm

<quote>
PA minister says intifada planned

Mohammed Zaatari
Daily Star correspondent

A Palestinian Cabinet minister said on Friday that the five-month-old uprising against Israel had been planned since the Camp David peace talks failed in July, contradicting past contentions of a spontaneous outburst from Palestinians on the street.

Imad Faluji, the Palestinian National Authority¹s Communications Minister, said during a PLO rally in Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp outside of Sidon that it was a mistake to think that the intifada was sparked by Israeli Prime Minister-elect Ariel Sharon¹s controversial visit to Al-Aqsa mosque compound in late September.

³It had been planned since Chairman Arafat¹s return from Camp David, when he turned the tables in the face of the former US president (Bill Clinton) and rejected the American
conditions,² Faluji said.

At the US presidential retreat of Camp David, Maryland, Clinton had pressed Arafat to make concessions, particularly on the return of Palestinian refugees, in response to outgoing Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak¹s willingness to surrender some Jerusalem neighborhoods to the Palestinians.
Barak¹s unprecedented step is widely viewed as contributing to Sharon¹s election victory.

Faluji¹s remarks contrast with previous Palestinian statements blaming Sharon¹s visit to the mosque compound for sparking a spontaneous uprising by Palestinians frustrated with the peace process. Israel has long contended the intifada, in which more than 400 people have been killed, was planned.

Faluji did not elaborate on the planning or who was involved.

He also said the PLO was reviving its ³military action² groups to escalate the fighting against Israel and called for a meeting of Arab defense ministers to ³face up to Israeli aggression.²

³The PLO is going back to the 60s, 70s and 80s. The Fatah Hawks, the Kassam Brigades, the Red Eagle and all the military action groups are returning to work,² he told a crowd of nearly 2,500 people who included local Palestinian faction leaders.

Faluji warned Israel that it would not ³enjoy a single night of calm² if Palestinians continued to be killed at the hands of the Jewish state.

He praised the stand adopted by Lebanon and Syria in backing the Palestine cause. ³What the Zionist entity faced in south Lebanon will be a picnic compared with what it will face when the Palestinian people become enraged,² he said. ³The Palestinian resistance will strike in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and in every inch of Palestinian territory.

³Palestinian vengeance will be harder and stronger than many expect Š we won¹t let Israel enjoy a single night of calm as long Palestinian blood continues to flow.²

He argued that Palestinians were in Lebanon temporarily ³and it¹s not permissible to encroach on the right of refugees to return (to their homeland) in accordance with United Nations
Resolution 194.² - with agencies

</quote>

The article cuts off at "with agencies."

[tw]

Originally posted by adamzion
FYI, the <u>Daily Star</u> is known to be rather virulently anti-Israeli, so this article could hardly be said to suffer from pro-Israel bias.

The article is availble at http://www.dailystar.com.lb/03_03_01/art4.htm

<quote>
PA minister says intifada planned

Mohammed Zaatari
Daily Star correspondent

A Palestinian Cabinet minister said on Friday that the five-month-old uprising against Israel had been planned since the Camp David peace talks failed in July, contradicting past contentions of a spontaneous outburst from Palestinians on the street. ...

Unfortunately this is good news. Too many non-Jewish Israelis and non-Israelis have been murdered; not enough Jewish Israelis die. Once Jewish Israelis death rates increase substancially, only then will mainstream Jews reject the dic head Sharon and Likud; and decide to live in peace with the other religions. Presently, the motherfuckers even have Adam brainwashed with that nonsense whiel they steal West Bank and Gaza land illegally, and even deny non-Jewish Israelis their effective voting rights.

For example, Adam will report every rare Jewish Israeli death but will remain silent for days on end while extremist Jews daily murder non-Jewish Israeli citizens and non-Israeli citizens. These Jewish murderers are never investigated nor reported by the extremist right wing Jewish press - and are ignored by Adam who has never once reported the murder of a non-Jew by an Israeli Jew. If Adam was really a friend of Israel, then he would be condemning the fuck face Sharon here and immediately. He does not because he only reports extremist rhetoric; and then must cry that the US and UK press is anti-Israeli.

I am a student of Nam. When someone (ie Nixon) calls the NY Times, et al an enemy, then look at the accuser for the real enemy. When the US and UK press is called anti-Israeli, then look at accusers to identify the real anti-Israeli. They are called right wing Israelis. We know the current ass-hole Prime Minister of Israel advocated the death of a predecessor (Rabin) and inspired the current intafada; since, just like Hilter, such instabilities would get Sharon more power. Sharon loves creating the intafada and then getting others to blame the victims - non-Jewish Israelis and non-Israelis.

[adamzion]

[Bit #1]
BULLETS AT MARDI GRAS

A CNN article (February 25, 2001), entitled "Violence mars Mardi Gras parties in Austin, Seattle," reports:

"[P]olice in Seattle used pepper spray and rubber bullets to break up an unruly crowd of up to 2,000 people after bars closed at 2 a.m. Many in the crowd were drinking, removing their clothes or climbing on cars and light posts, police spokeswoman Pam McCammon said."

As Seattle police fire on the crowd with rubber bullets, where is the media outrage against this excessive use of force? Where is the international inquiry?

Israeli soldiers are consistently condemned for using these same rubber bullets, despite the fact that Israelis are attacked with firebombs and live ammunition –- an arguably greater danger than drunken Seattle partiers whose act of aggression was "removing their clothes."

It is also interesting that CNN refers here to "rubber bullets," whereas in reports on Israel, CNN goes out of its way to use the more ominous description: "rubber-coated
steel bullets."

Ironically, the Mardi Gras incident comes the same week that the U.S. State Department issued a human rights report condemning Israel for "often using excessive force against Palestinian demonstrators."

This also comes on the heels of a report that Taliban troops rounded up and shot an estimated 500 civilians in central Afghanistan. There was no U.N. condemnation.

[Bit #2]
BOMBING IN NETANYA

In its coverage of the heinous terrorist bombing this week in Netanya, many media outlets placed primary emphasis on the fact that an Arab man was beaten in the aftermath, while relegating to short mention the fact that 3 Jews were killed and scores injured.

In a further effort to whitewash Palestinian terrorism, media outlets (CNN and BBC among them) refrained from labeling the Palestinian bomber a “terrorist,” calling him
a "militant" instead.

An especially creative technique was employed by the New York Times, which ran the following headline:

"Suicide Bomber Kills 3 Israelis After Deaths of 6 Palestinians"

The implication is that the bombing of Jewish civilians is justified as retaliation. In truth, the 6 Arab deaths occurred over a number of days, and it is spurious to draw
any correlation. Besides, does the Times really wish to suggest that suicide bombing is justified?

The Times photo caption was equally inaccurate and misleading: "Israeli witnesses screamed for vengeance yesterday after a suicide bombing, and some beat Arab
bystanders." The photo does not depict an angry lynch mob. It shows women crying and in shock at the ghastly terrorist carnage that lays before them.

Of course, Tom no doubt considers both the US media underplaying the Mardi Gras riots and police countermeasures and the deaths of the Israelis in the Netanya bombing to be a good thing.

Just your annoying local Jew who isn't meekly accepting anything,
Z

[tw]

Adam forgets a few points. For example in the last 4 weeks, 14 Israelis (Jewish and non-Jewish) died - whereas Palestinians die every day. Did you know that Gaza strip is now surrouned by a deep trench and barb wire - just like a concentration camp. Curious that Israeli extremist would not see the irony (hate creates blindness). Furthermore, Israelis also used live ammunition - Seattle does not. Adam previously said that using live ammunition was acceptable - when it is violation of international peacekeeping procedures. But then Adam often repeats the attitudes of anti-humaity and anti-world extremists - without any representation of the story's other side. Adam reiterates the half truths of a man who advocated the murder of Prime Minister Rabin.

We did not see Seattle police firing live ammo. We did not see dead Seattle demonstrators. AND we did not have a Seattle government that created the volence - then blamed all others.

Adam conveniently and continuously refuses to call Sharon an evil man - let alone the dic head that Sharon is. Adam conveniently ignores one point - the intafada was created by a man who craves political power - who advocated the murder of a previous Prime Minisiter - who setup the massacre of innocent civilians in Lebanon - who invaded Lebanon even in direct violation of his Prime Minister - and who almost got every reader here killed because he brought the US and USSR to Defcon 4 - one step from total nuclear war. Violate a cease fire with Egypt? Who cares. The Americans, Egypitians, Soviets - they are all inferior to the great and almight Sharon - dic head champ of the world.

A fundamental point remains that Adam respects someone with a history not unlike 1930 Hitler - except that Hitler did his massacres only after he was in power. Israelis elected as Prime Minister a man who advocates not just murder - but racial and religious hate crimes as well.

The bottom line in the picture Man vs Tank: Sharon and Likud are so corrupt that even boys must stand up to tanks - curiously as in Tianenaman Square a decade earlier.

[adamzion]

I've met you face-to-face once, and I've seen you post here for years. You've always struck me as an intelligent, decent sort, albeit a bit long-winded at times.

But you simply cannot discuss the violence in the mid-east without resorting to ad hominem attacks on Jews, the Jewish state, or its leaders. This makes it all but impossible to actually discuss things with you in a civilized manner.

I shall continue to point out the inconsistencies in US- and British- media coverage of the crisis in Israel, but I can no longer debate them with you, since you seem bound and determined to ignore all facts which do not fit into your preconceived notion of "Israel=bad/Palestinians=good."

Sad, really,
Z

[tw]

Originally posted by adamzion
I've met you face-to-face once, and I've seen you post here for years. You've always struck me as an intelligent, decent sort, albeit a bit long-winded at times.

But you simply cannot discuss the violence in the mid-east without resorting to ad hominem attacks on Jews, the Jewish state, or its leaders. This makes it all but impossible to actually discuss things with you in a civilized manner.

I shall continue to point out the inconsistencies in US- and British- media coverage of the crisis in Israel, but I can no longer debate them with you, since you seem bound and determined to ignore all facts which do not fit into your preconceived notion of "Israel=bad/Palestinians=good."

Where is an attack on Jews? If critcizing an election of a mass murder is an attack on a religion, well, I don't see the connection. My every post is clearly in the interest of Israel because presently, Israel is doing things similar or worse than 1930 Germany. Currently intelligent Jews are being railroaded by a hate promoting devil. To stay silent on this issue would be to promote the destruction of Israel.

Last night I listened to Radio Israel. They reported on some violence in the area and a new administration that promots peace. Nothing more. How absurd. Listening to Swiss Radio said something completely different - because they did not report half truths. The current Israeli government talks peace WHILE completing an isolation of Palestinian towns with deep, wide trenchs AND now they are cutting telephone wires and *water* supplies! Is that a peace loving western government or one building Warsaw ghettos? Can you not see the irony in all this? The Jews are acting just like pre-WWII Nazi? To not say so is to be the enemy of Israel.

Responsible news services - including Radio Japan - report same. But from Radio Israel we have this half truth - Sharon is seeking peace.

Can you not see the evil dic head? For those late to this thread, dic head and all other four letter words are not found in my posts since the days of The Cellar Mark I - over a decade ago. That is how evil this one man is - the turd face Ariel Sharon whose long history is violence, insubordination, massacres, advocating the assisination of a major world leader, attempting to create WWIII, invasion of a soveign nation, and now recreating the intafada. The current Prime Minister of Israel is everything that Israel once stood against. But even more embarrassing, moderate Jews will not even condemn this racist.

As stated before, I have posted to the benefit of Israel. This is not Serbia, Iraq, Indonesia, etc where hate crimes a massacres were routinely conducted. This is Israel, a country that could freely elect its leaders, that once stood for western traditions and human rights, and that acts no different than Milosevic of Yugoslavia. Israel is now a shameful disaster to all peoples. Yet American Jews embarrassingly remain silent - therefore advocating the destruction of Israel. I am appauled. And further appauled that, by representing the interests of Israel, instead, I would be attack for doing so by a Jew.

The facts on Sharon are accurately posted and not in dispute. Therefore we attack the messenger? Go figure.
UK and US press are not distorting the facts. It is the entire western world that is reporting accurately the evils of extremist Jewish leaders.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by tw

The facts on Sharon are accurately posted and not in dispute. Therefore we attack the messenger? Go figure.
UK and US press are not distorting the facts. It is the entire western world that is reporting accurately the evils of extremist Jewish leaders.

Clinton said it best a few months ago--neither side will get everything they want. Israel will lose East Jerusalem (which they took illegally anyway) and Palestine will not be a completely connected state and will be very dependent on Israel. Sharon simply reminds me too much of Netanyahu, and the peace process will again be derailed. But the Palestinians rioting in the streets will not help their cause either.

It would also seem that Israelis change their minds as often as Americans. From Netanyahu to Barak to Sharon in what? A few years? Less than that.

I don't know if you've already been there tw, but you might be interested in checking out Amnesty International's website. They have extensive documentation on Israel.

http://www.amnesty.org