Punishment is futile - Page 2

wolf · 07-14-2004, 11:45 AM

There seem to be wackos who think that swimming with sharks is a vacation destination. It's all the fault of the Discovery Channel, making them seem cuddly.

jaguar · 07-14-2004, 11:49 AM

I've got a scuba licence and I know a fair few experienced divers. Most have had at least one shark experience ranging from seeing them having a nap on the bottom to curious grey nurse sharks circling around. If you spend enough time diving (and I don't) you wil come across them sooner or later. It's still safer than driving.

Quote:

Well, if that works for you, great. However, that was the family's choice and I'm sure that some people have wondered why they chose to not have the sharks killed. I say that's their business, just like if I were to have choosen to say go ahead and kill them is MY business. It's not for anyone to wonder "why" and so forth.

Well yes, it is other people's business. You're not going to go out there in a dingy with a .45 yourself and do it are you? They have to send out teams of people to scour large areas to kill a member of an endangered species so that someone can feel a sense of revenge.

Elspode · 07-14-2004, 11:59 AM

{Christian} All the creatures and plants of the Earth are under the dominion of Man, to serve him as Man serves God. Therefore, Man may do as it pleases with these lesser creations. {/Christian}

It really isn't all that difficult to find the source of mankind's arrogance about Mother Earth and her children, IMHO. Oh...and there's a lot of other bad stuff that occurs sociologically because of that same damn book and the people who have obviously misread it, but that's another thread.

ladysycamore · 07-14-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

I've got a scuba licence and I know a fair few experienced divers. Most have had at least one shark experience ranging from seeing them having a nap on the bottom to curious grey nurse sharks circling around. If you spend enough time diving (and I don't) you wil come across them sooner or later. It's still safer than driving.

Well, I don't anticipate doing any diving soon, so I'll take my chances driving because that's what I have to do to get around (and no public transit isn't an option for me because of my health, and those here who are in the Philly area know how f***ed up SEPTA is).

Quote:

Well yes, it is other people's business. You're not going to go out there in a dingy with a .45 yourself and do it are you? They have to send out teams of people to scour large areas to kill a member of an endangered species so that someone can feel a sense of revenge.

Erm what I meant was that it's my business how I would feel about the matter, what I would have wanted to have happen and that people need to stop wondering the "why" about every little thing in the world.

"Why ask why" isn't just a ad slogan.

slang · 07-14-2004, 12:13 PM

It looks to me like everyone here has overlooked the obvious.

If Bradley Smith had equipped himself with a sensible defensive handgun, he would not have been harmed. He may have been able to host one helluva beach party with a skewered shark rotating over a crackling fire as well.

It seems his lack of preparedness in this regard has caused sorrow and discomfort to not only himself, but also to the community overall. Sad.

We all can learn something from this tragedy though. The accessability and use of a well suited personal defense handgun can be a lifesaver in a wide range of life's everyday situations, even surfing.

jaguar · 07-14-2004, 12:13 PM

My point was that staying out of the oceans is not really an answer. People that bait sharks on the other hand deserve what they get, or lose as the case may be.

I think I misinterpreted what you said, my bad.

Happy Monkey · 07-14-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

The other factor is that there are a lot of things off Aussie waters that can kill you, jellyfish, sharks, various seashells, seasnakes and stonefish not to mention some truly evil currents and undertows that so many people are not only unaware of but have no idea how to escape from either.

You're just trying to agitate against Undertoad.

ladysycamore · 07-14-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

My point was that staying out of the oceans is not really an answer. People that bait sharks on the other hand deserve what they get, or lose as the case may be.

Heh, staying out of the ocean works for me: haven't been biten by a shark ever.

Quote:

I think I misinterpreted what you said, my bad.

Fuggitaboutit.

07-14-2004, 12:44 PM

WE all take risks every day we are alive. Even just crossing a street means that we are risking being hit by an out of control truck or a drunk driver. If we decide to take an airplane, there's a risk it might crash. If we get in our cars, there's a risk we might have an accident. Swimming in the ocean or walking in the wood is no different. I think its foolish to take it out on the animals. We know that they may be there, we access the possibilities, and take the risk. I agree that its pointless to go around killing sharks. They'll never figure out which ones were responsible for the attack, anyhow.

I go out in the back country often, and the animal which concerns me the most around here is the cougar. When it comes to cougars, there are no good statistics on "repeat offenders." Generally, a cougar which kills a human is hunted down and destroyed. There are a couple of instances where the animal was caught and relocated and never attacked anyone again. Most cougars which attack people are either yearlings who have not found a hunting territory of their own or animals which are sick. 80% of all cougar attacks were found to have been carried out by under weight animals. When I'm in cougar country, I take certain precautions. I avoid activities at dawn or dusk - a cougar's prime hunting hours. I avoid acting like prey - jogging in the woods, etc. I carry mace, and I know that if I encounter a cougar, I need to act like a predator - jump on a rock if possible, shout, throw rocks, and wave my arms around while looking at the cougar the entire time. Cougars don't really consider humans to be a tasty treat, and would much prefer to go eat a nice deer or elk. You need to remind them of this if you encounter one. The worst possible thing to do is to act like prey and try to run from one. They're too fast anyhow. It's damn hard to out pace a cougar.

If I ever were to be killed by one, I'd just as soon Fish and Wildlife let it go unless it was proved to be a threat to other humans. Its a risk, but its a very small one. I'll take my chances and accept the consequences if I loose through my own foolishness.

wolf · 07-14-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slang

If Bradley Smith had equipped himself with a sensible defensive handgun, he would not have been harmed. He may have been able to host one helluva beach party with a skewered shark rotating over a crackling fire as well.

Hmmmm ....

Shark attacks tend to happen off the coast of Australia.

And New Jersey.

And California.

All places where one can't equip oneself with a sensible defensive handgun ...

Oh my god.

The sharks are behind gun control.

Run!!

Run for your lives!!!!

ladysycamore · 07-14-2004, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marichiko

WE all take risks every day we are alive. Even just crossing a street means that we are risking being hit by an out of control truck or a drunk driver. If we decide to take an airplane, there's a risk it might crash. If we get in our cars, there's a risk we might have an accident. Swimming in the ocean or walking in the wood is no different. I think its foolish to take it out on the animals. We know that they may be there, we access the possibilities, and take the risk. I agree that its pointless to go around killing sharks. They'll never figure out which ones were responsible for the attack, anyhow.

My thing is there are risks that one *HAS* to take, and those that people voluntarily CHOOSE to take. Driving (at least for me) is something I MUST do in order to get around on a daily basis. Swimming in the ocean full of dangerous animals is something I do not HAVE to do, nor does anyone else for that matter. It's something they WANT to do. After a car accident, nobody is asking, "Well why was she even driving?" but I'm sure that many people, after hearing the news, have asked, "Well why was that young man surfing around a bunch of sharks???"

Wolf was right by saying:
There seem to be wackos who think that swimming with sharks is a vacation destination. It's all the fault of the Discovery Channel, making them seem cuddly.

Don't get it.

wolf · 07-14-2004, 01:31 PM

There's a lot that I don't get, including some of the more extreme piercings and bungie jumping.

Clodfobble · 07-14-2004, 03:19 PM

Wolf, is there a waterproof gun on the market that he could have kept in a little wetsuit holster, or would he really have had to be on a boat to shoot the shark?

jaguar · 07-14-2004, 03:24 PM

there are guns that fire underwater but they're more like mini rocket launchers than guns.

Clodfobble · 07-14-2004, 03:31 PM

So really what he needed was a little personal-sized harpoon?

I want one!

07-14-2004, 11:45 AM	#16
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	There seem to be wackos who think that swimming with sharks is a vacation destination. It's all the fault of the Discovery Channel, making them seem cuddly. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-14-2004, 11:59 AM	#18
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	{Christian} All the creatures and plants of the Earth are under the dominion of Man, to serve him as Man serves God. Therefore, Man may do as it pleases with these lesser creations. {/Christian} It really isn't all that difficult to find the source of mankind's arrogance about Mother Earth and her children, IMHO. Oh...and there's a lot of other bad stuff that occurs sociologically because of that same damn book and the people who have obviously misread it, but that's another thread. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

07-14-2004, 12:13 PM	#21
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	My point was that staying out of the oceans is not really an answer. People that bait sharks on the other hand deserve what they get, or lose as the case may be. I think I misinterpreted what you said, my bad. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-14-2004, 01:31 PM	#27
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	There's a lot that I don't get, including some of the more extreme piercings and bungie jumping. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-14-2004, 03:24 PM	#29
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	there are guns that fire underwater but they're more like mini rocket launchers than guns. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-14-2004, 12:13 PM	#20
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	It looks to me like everyone here has overlooked the obvious. If Bradley Smith had equipped himself with a sensible defensive handgun, he would not have been harmed. He may have been able to host one helluva beach party with a skewered shark rotating over a crackling fire as well. It seems his lack of preparedness in this regard has caused sorrow and discomfort to not only himself, but also to the community overall. Sad. We all can learn something from this tragedy though. The accessability and use of a well suited personal defense handgun can be a lifesaver in a wide range of life's everyday situations, even surfing.

07-14-2004, 12:44 PM	#24
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	WE all take risks every day we are alive. Even just crossing a street means that we are risking being hit by an out of control truck or a drunk driver. If we decide to take an airplane, there's a risk it might crash. If we get in our cars, there's a risk we might have an accident. Swimming in the ocean or walking in the wood is no different. I think its foolish to take it out on the animals. We know that they may be there, we access the possibilities, and take the risk. I agree that its pointless to go around killing sharks. They'll never figure out which ones were responsible for the attack, anyhow. I go out in the back country often, and the animal which concerns me the most around here is the cougar. When it comes to cougars, there are no good statistics on "repeat offenders." Generally, a cougar which kills a human is hunted down and destroyed. There are a couple of instances where the animal was caught and relocated and never attacked anyone again. Most cougars which attack people are either yearlings who have not found a hunting territory of their own or animals which are sick. 80% of all cougar attacks were found to have been carried out by under weight animals. When I'm in cougar country, I take certain precautions. I avoid activities at dawn or dusk - a cougar's prime hunting hours. I avoid acting like prey - jogging in the woods, etc. I carry mace, and I know that if I encounter a cougar, I need to act like a predator - jump on a rock if possible, shout, throw rocks, and wave my arms around while looking at the cougar the entire time. Cougars don't really consider humans to be a tasty treat, and would much prefer to go eat a nice deer or elk. You need to remind them of this if you encounter one. The worst possible thing to do is to act like prey and try to run from one. They're too fast anyhow. It's damn hard to out pace a cougar. If I ever were to be killed by one, I'd just as soon Fish and Wildlife let it go unless it was proved to be a threat to other humans. Its a risk, but its a very small one. I'll take my chances and accept the consequences if I loose through my own foolishness.

07-14-2004, 03:19 PM	#28
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Wolf, is there a waterproof gun on the market that he could have kept in a little wetsuit holster, or would he really have had to be on a boat to shoot the shark?

07-14-2004, 03:31 PM	#30
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	So really what he needed was a little personal-sized harpoon? I want one!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)