House Republicans Vote to Cut Workers' Pay - Page 2

Kitsune · 07-26-2004, 01:37 PM

Ah, I misunderstood the article when I first read it. For some reason they mentioned the Wal-Mart ordeal, but it appears to be a seperate issue -- something about a pending class action. In my mental blurring of the summary article on wages and OT, I thought they were paying people for only 28 hours and making them work more.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

I thought they were paying people for only 28 hours and making them work more.

They do that.

Quote:

If WalMart's employment policies aren't to someone's liking then they are advised to seek employment elsewhere. Its not like the old mining towns of the 19th century where pennies per day was the only option and you were lucky to get it.

Oh yes it is, after WalMart (more correctly its customers) drove all the other employers out.

Kitsune · 07-26-2004, 02:48 PM

I don't see how that could possibly be legal. How in the hell does anyone survive on ~$15k/year?

ladysycamore · 07-26-2004, 03:09 PM

They don't...or just barely.

I find it amazing that people love to say,"Well if you don't like what's going on here, then leave and find something else", blah blah nonsense. Like it's *that* easy for some people to find a job. Hell, they wouldn't be at Walmart in the first goddamned place if they could have worked somewhere else!!!!!!

lookout123 · 07-26-2004, 03:15 PM

what holds people to a job that they hate? no doubt there are some people that have no options, but i find that group to be pretty small. i have found most people that are "stuck" in a position are really afraid to take the leap required to move into a different career, unwilling to sacrifice what they do have to get something better, or just not confident enough to say "i can do that"

complaining about not be able to get a better job isn't pointless if one isn't committed enough to their own success to do what it takes to become qualified for a better position.

jaguar · 07-26-2004, 03:20 PM

There is also the factor that it's hard to survive in the meantime when you have absolutely no savings.

Troubleshooter · 07-26-2004, 03:21 PM

It's some of both I'd wager.

There are areas where the dearth of jobs funnels people to WalMart. Especially after they have killed most of the businesses they compete with in that area.

There are also people unwilling to risk what they have for what they might. They could do with a little bit of initiative or a bit of "shut the fuck up or fix it."

Happy Monkey · 07-26-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

what holds people to a job that they hate? no doubt there are some people that have no options, but i find that group to be pretty small.

Maybe there are options, but the others are worse.

Kitsune · 07-26-2004, 03:22 PM

what holds people to a job that they hate? no doubt there are some people that have no options, but i find that group to be pretty small.

Um, you don't get out much, do you? I invite you to visit any rural town out in the Middle of Nowhere (Eustace: "yargh!") and talk to some of the residents about their ability to change jobs, pack up and move, etc. It isn't easy when you have little resources to change jobs and simply surviving takes all your income.

Or maybe they're just ignorant and aren't committed. I dunno.

lookout123 · 07-26-2004, 03:29 PM

it doesn't change the fact that unfortunate as it may be, this is a matter of choice.

as far as them not having savings to do it - i can understand that one, but then the question can be asked, have you gone to check into career counseling programs because many folks qualify for some type of assistance there? what type of car are you driving? taken a vacation lately? got a big screen tv? etc...

i know that it sucks to have to go without, i've done it - but it is a matter of prioritization.
when i chose to leave my solid income employment to go into my current field, i sold my truck to eliminate the payment, cancelled trips and vacations for 2 years, and watched what money i had saved evaporate while living a lifestyle that was less than i was accustomed too. but it was important to me, so i was willing to take the risk.
that isn't the right move for everyone, but i bristle when people say they are being held down.
some people say there are no jobs in their area. then pack the car and go somewhere else. if you choose to stay, acknowledge it is your choice.

Happy Monkey · 07-26-2004, 03:37 PM

So your point is that not everyone who feels trapped actually is? Granted.

How about the rest?

lookout123 · 07-26-2004, 03:38 PM

kitsune - i am from the middle of nowhere. the home of John Deere, previously dominated by international harvester, the rock island lines, etc... there is no opportunity there. i packed the car and left. my 3 best life long friends are still there. every time i go to visit or i call them, they talk about the lack of opportunity, but when i suggest they try moving the answer is always something about needing the government to fix the employment situation there. ah, bullshit - it's not going to happen, you can wait a lifetime for someone else to improve your situation for you. i chose to leave. i picked phoenix because i like the weather, the mountains, and a growing economy. when i left i was towing everything i owned and i had $1100 in my checking account for gas and motels. i'm not the smartest guy, the most educated guy, the best looking guy, or the best anything guy. i was willing to take risks and work hard. when i was in a job that i saw going nowhere is started looking. i moved up slowly, taking some jobs i hated just to get the skills to do something else. if i can do it anyone can.
again - taking large risk isn't for everyone, but no one is holding anyone down. it is a choice to stay in your situation, alter your situation, or scrap the whole damn thing and move on.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

career counseling programs

You're joking, right? Where would the average person find such a critter?

Kitsune · 07-26-2004, 03:47 PM

That's pretty cool, Lookout123. When I visited some of the small towns in South GA where industry had fallen, I saw a lot of families that were unable to move on to other place, etc. Its good to see that it can be done with enough willpower.

Maybe its just some people fear change and movement? I'm not sure why so many would simply elect to suffer. A lot of the farmers I spoke with were too old to pick up another skill or get hired on somewhere else. A lot of them had families to worry about that couldn't be neglected in order to move to another city, etc. I've never considered what I would do in that position but I think being single and not having kids means I could be very flexible: the next day, I could sell all my stuff and find someplace new to go and work.

lookout123 · 07-26-2004, 03:54 PM

bruce i'm not kidding. check with your local DES office. i used to clerk for the Veteran's Affairs dept inside one of the DES offices. they typicall don't offer highpaying jobs, but they do help find jobs and they offer skills upgrade training. none of them are going to turn a mechanic into an accountant, but if someone is serious they should be willing to treat their career like a ladder - one step at a time.
besides the DES many colleges offer basic skills training in a number of areas at a reasonable cost, and obviously offer grants, scholarships, and loans.

07-26-2004, 03:09 PM	#19
ladysycamore "I may not always be perfect, but I'm always me." Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In Sycamore's boxers Posts: 1,341	They don't...or just barely. I find it amazing that people love to say,"Well if you don't like what's going on here, then leave and find something else", blah blah nonsense. Like it's *that* easy for some people to find a job. Hell, they wouldn't be at Walmart in the first goddamned place if they could have worked somewhere else!!!!!! __________________ "Freedom is not given. It is our right at birth. But there are some moments when it must be taken." ~Tagline from the movie "Amistad"~ "The Akan concept of Sankofa: In order to move forward we first have to take a step back. In other words, before we can be prepared for the future, we must comprehend the past." From "We Did It, They Hid It"

07-26-2004, 03:15 PM	#20
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	what holds people to a job that they hate? no doubt there are some people that have no options, but i find that group to be pretty small. i have found most people that are "stuck" in a position are really afraid to take the leap required to move into a different career, unwilling to sacrifice what they do have to get something better, or just not confident enough to say "i can do that" complaining about not be able to get a better job isn't pointless if one isn't committed enough to their own success to do what it takes to become qualified for a better position. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-26-2004, 03:20 PM	#21
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	There is also the factor that it's hard to survive in the meantime when you have absolutely no savings. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-26-2004, 03:21 PM	#22
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	It's some of both I'd wager. There are areas where the dearth of jobs funnels people to WalMart. Especially after they have killed most of the businesses they compete with in that area. There are also people unwilling to risk what they have for what they might. They could do with a little bit of initiative or a bit of "shut the fuck up or fix it." __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

07-26-2004, 03:29 PM	#25
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	it doesn't change the fact that unfortunate as it may be, this is a matter of choice. as far as them not having savings to do it - i can understand that one, but then the question can be asked, have you gone to check into career counseling programs because many folks qualify for some type of assistance there? what type of car are you driving? taken a vacation lately? got a big screen tv? etc... i know that it sucks to have to go without, i've done it - but it is a matter of prioritization. when i chose to leave my solid income employment to go into my current field, i sold my truck to eliminate the payment, cancelled trips and vacations for 2 years, and watched what money i had saved evaporate while living a lifestyle that was less than i was accustomed too. but it was important to me, so i was willing to take the risk. that isn't the right move for everyone, but i bristle when people say they are being held down. some people say there are no jobs in their area. then pack the car and go somewhere else. if you choose to stay, acknowledge it is your choice. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-26-2004, 01:37 PM	#16
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Ah, I misunderstood the article when I first read it. For some reason they mentioned the Wal-Mart ordeal, but it appears to be a seperate issue -- something about a pending class action. In my mental blurring of the summary article on wages and OT, I thought they were paying people for only 28 hours and making them work more.

07-26-2004, 02:48 PM	#18
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I don't see how that could possibly be legal. How in the hell does anyone survive on ~$15k/year?

07-26-2004, 03:22 PM	#24
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	what holds people to a job that they hate? no doubt there are some people that have no options, but i find that group to be pretty small. Um, you don't get out much, do you? I invite you to visit any rural town out in the Middle of Nowhere (Eustace: "yargh!") and talk to some of the residents about their ability to change jobs, pack up and move, etc. It isn't easy when you have little resources to change jobs and simply surviving takes all your income. Or maybe they're just ignorant and aren't committed. I dunno.

07-26-2004, 03:37 PM	#26
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	So your point is that not everyone who feels trapped actually is? Granted. How about the rest? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-26-2004, 03:38 PM	#27
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	kitsune - i am from the middle of nowhere. the home of John Deere, previously dominated by international harvester, the rock island lines, etc... there is no opportunity there. i packed the car and left. my 3 best life long friends are still there. every time i go to visit or i call them, they talk about the lack of opportunity, but when i suggest they try moving the answer is always something about needing the government to fix the employment situation there. ah, bullshit - it's not going to happen, you can wait a lifetime for someone else to improve your situation for you. i chose to leave. i picked phoenix because i like the weather, the mountains, and a growing economy. when i left i was towing everything i owned and i had $1100 in my checking account for gas and motels. i'm not the smartest guy, the most educated guy, the best looking guy, or the best anything guy. i was willing to take risks and work hard. when i was in a job that i saw going nowhere is started looking. i moved up slowly, taking some jobs i hated just to get the skills to do something else. if i can do it anyone can. again - taking large risk isn't for everyone, but no one is holding anyone down. it is a choice to stay in your situation, alter your situation, or scrap the whole damn thing and move on. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-26-2004, 03:47 PM	#29
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	That's pretty cool, Lookout123. When I visited some of the small towns in South GA where industry had fallen, I saw a lot of families that were unable to move on to other place, etc. Its good to see that it can be done with enough willpower. Maybe its just some people fear change and movement? I'm not sure why so many would simply elect to suffer. A lot of the farmers I spoke with were too old to pick up another skill or get hired on somewhere else. A lot of them had families to worry about that couldn't be neglected in order to move to another city, etc. I've never considered what I would do in that position but I think being single and not having kids means I could be very flexible: the next day, I could sell all my stuff and find someplace new to go and work.

07-26-2004, 03:54 PM	#30
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	bruce i'm not kidding. check with your local DES office. i used to clerk for the Veteran's Affairs dept inside one of the DES offices. they typicall don't offer highpaying jobs, but they do help find jobs and they offer skills upgrade training. none of them are going to turn a mechanic into an accountant, but if someone is serious they should be willing to treat their career like a ladder - one step at a time. besides the DES many colleges offer basic skills training in a number of areas at a reasonable cost, and obviously offer grants, scholarships, and loans. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

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